Hi. Welcome to the Conscious Connection podcast. I’m your host, King Carol Hasbrouck.

On this show, we uncover ways to follow your inner guidance system so you can live your most, most authentic and fantastic life. Our mission is to help you learn how to differentiate between your ego thoughts and your true, authentic higher self, which can lead you to your life purpose. On new adventures and even to new callings.

You can finally live the life you desire and the life you deserve. I’m so excited today that I get to introduce Josh Naiman from Naiman Creative. We’re in Naiman Creative Studios right now recording this podcast, and Josh made it all possible.

So welcome, Josh. Tell us a little bit about yourself, and then we’ll get into the inner guidance work. Wonderful.

It’s a pleasure to be on this side of the table and pleasure that you’re a part of the SunLeaders podcast and here in the studio and the work we do together. So I just wanted to get that out there. We just finished reading your book for sun readers and dissected it and had just amazing conversation.

So it’s been a real big pleasure getting to know you and like, who you are. It’s inspiring and I’m very grateful for that. And we’re in, like, thankful mode because Thanksgiving’s right around the corner, so I am thankful to know you.

Good. And that got to cool. And it’s fun.

I like being interviewed because I’m always the one interviewing. So I realize sometimes the questions that I ask of people are actually harder than I. I realize. But, yeah, I own name and creative.

I CEO and founder. We started just. We’re almost four years old.

Yay. Yeah. And we are just rocking and rolling.

We’ve got a great audio division. Jordan here is editing this podcast, producing this podcast as we speak. And we do a lot of websites, branding, marketing strategy, and executing those marketing strategies for many different companies all across the nation.

And it’s just been an amazing journey collecting talent that I’ve, you know, met people over the years, and now we work together and make people’s visions and dreams a reality with our collective talents. So I just love making things that weren’t there before, whether it be a logo or music. Because I’m a drummer.

Jordan and I play together and. Yeah. So that’s just, like, my itch that I like to scratch and I can’t help it.

Oh, that’s wonderful. I’m glad. I’m glad.

And we met because I saw real estate and my photographer had just heard about my book. He hadn’t even read my book. And he told Eric nutting about my book.

Who, of course, you and Eric are good friends and business partners. And, and so Eric brought me to a SunLeaders session, networking session, and it’s just been love ever since. So I’m so glad that all transpired.

It’s cool how people find their way to SunLeaders because we’re kind of a niche, but the people who connect with the community, it’s really meaningful. And you’re right in alignment there. Yes, well, and I had gone on this adventure of servant leadership in my book 10,000 Miles of Miracles, which, by the way, you can find on Amazon on under the same name.

And it’s about a journey I took with a girlfriend doing service work across the country. And it’s just full of miracle after miracle. And it’s led me to you and to this podcast and to many other great things.

And Josh and Eric are going to help me launch my speaking career. But it’s not about me today. It’s about you, Josh.

So let’s talk about you a little bit. Oh, boy. Okay.

Okay. So I have some questions. I don’t know how many we’ll get through, but however many we get through will be perfect.

So, first of all, do you believe you have an inner guidance system? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, defining it that way is pretty on the, on the nail on the head or however you say it, because it, I think a lot of people define it differently. I think you’ve found a good way to phrase it. So.

Yeah, um, you know, some people, like, I, I, I was thinking about, like, synonyms for it, you know, like your gut, you know, or, but then it’s like, okay, does this come. Do decisions come from internal or from external factors? From your environment informing your internal and your internal informing your environment and then the situation that you’re in at that moment and other factors that play to your decision at that moment, whether you’re under pressure or you have extra time, if there’s a
deadline, or if you have plenty of space to move physically or move in time, you know, so, so it gets dynamic. It’s, it’s interesting.

Inner guidance systems, three words. But then you’ve gotten me thinking and we’ve had several conversations about it in the book, discussions of dissecting your book and in thinking about it, it, my mind goes far because of how meaty that what it is. And I like that exercise, regardless if you can define it.

You know what I mean? I can tell. Yeah. So you get much more deep about it than I do.

Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. And that’s okay because we all just have a different way of analyzing and processing information, and so that’s perfect the way it is. I was going to ask you, so do you have a name that you call your inner guidance system? Well, now I call it my inner guidance system.

Perfect. I don’t know what I would have called it before. Probably my, you know, my gut.

Because that’s how I was, like, raised. Right? Yeah. And, you know, there’s studies done that we have two brains.

Right. We have a brain in our head and we have a brain in our gut. Yeah, I’ve heard that.

I don’t know about you, but my mother always told me, carol, follow your gut, and if you feel like you shouldn’t be in a certain situation, get the heck out of there. Right. And.

And I didn’t understand it at the time, but I did listen to her with it, and it saved my butt many times as a growing up of getting out of situations that my gut told me I shouldn’t be in. I, I’ve been reflecting on some situations that I, I, I felt very strongly. Wow.

There was a literal physical feeling of, like. For instance, one thing that popped in my head this morning when I was in Vancouver, shortly after I had met my wife, we went to. Me and my two buddies went to Whistler Canada for, like, two days.

It’s beautiful out there. And at that time, I indulged in a. A thing that was not necessarily legal in that area.

And we were just having a good time. It was. It’s very clean.

It’s not a huge deal. It’s just like the next step up from alcohol. You can put the puzzle together.

But, you know, we were hanging out kind of in walking around the town, and we each took a turn to go around the corner to poke the snot. And ultimately we. It was my turn and they were hanging out, and I just felt something.

I was like. They got quiet, and I had finished my portion. And then I was like, they’re too quiet.

I’m gonna stay here. And I don’t know why, but I stayed in that moment. And I didn’t come around the corner, and I just stayed until I heard them talk again like normal.

And a cop had come to them in that moment. And if I would have come around the corner with what I was holding in my hand, that would have gotten us in trouble. Right? We would have been in trouble.

And, you know, I mean, maybe that would have worked out for the best or whatever it is. But. And it’s not a huge deal, but it was definitely not condoned.

Sure. We probably would have gotten a slap on the wrist, but you know, something like, I felt it. Yes.

And a couple things. Put it together that just stay put. I’m in no rush.

It’s. Let’s play it safe and I’ll wait till they come around the corner and talk to me. Yes, perfect.

And they go, dude, I don’t know why you didn’t come around, but we thought for sure you were going to pop around the corner at any moment while this cop was talking to us. And you did it. Yeah.

So that was just like a great. Yeah, that’s a great story about following your gut. And most people feel it in their gut.

Right. Like, I get that funny little butterfly feeling in my abdomen of when something isn’t right. I don’t necessarily get it when something is right.

So it would be nice if I got. But what I do get when something is right is if that feeling of peace and a knowing that this is the right thing to do. But, boy, I tell you, my abdomen is so good.

My gut is so good at telling me this is the wrong thing for you, Carol. For any somebody else, it might be okay. But for you, Carol, this is the wrong thing to do.

So you got that feeling, and that was your inner guidance system telling you, just stay put. Yeah. Wait until you hear them talking again.

And good for you. Wonderful. And there was no rush, you know, so, like, also after my gut told me that, then I feel like it went to my brain to analyze that feeling.

And I was like, I don’t need to rush around the corner, so might as well play it safe. There’s no reason not to play it safe. We’ve got the whole night ahead of us.

So if I’m feeling this, I might as well acknowledge and act on this feeling because there are no negative repercussions for acting on it by staying put and hanging out for an extra two minutes. Yeah. So then the analysis happened in my brain.

So I do think that they work together. You know, I think that’s probably where a lot of magic happens, is an initial feeling happens in your gut and informs you greatly. And given depending on the amount of time that you can analyze that, if you have the time or not, if you do have the time, then you can use your brain to analyze that gut a little and go through a checklist of, okay, am I safe? Is this within my morals? Am I harming anybody, Et cetera.

Right. But sometimes your gut is. Someone just swerved in front of me, which direction do I go? Whatever that may be.

Right. Yeah, that’s a whole different process. Yeah, it’s very quick and it’s just reactionary and hopefully comes out for the best.

So do you ever get the feeling as well as. So do you, can you bring your heart into that as well? From your gut to your brain to your heart maybe. And you get the feeling that it’s the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do.

And let’s talk about when you started Name and Creative. What were you doing prior? I was working at a payment processing company and I was their creative director and it was a smaller company, smaller operation and they were super supportive. They knew that I was going to start my own company and they were so supportive of it.

It was such a great culture. It was so open and we were such hard workers. But you weren’t owned at all.

You were free to do what you do best and to work together. And I learned a lot there. And I filled this marketing gap that I was never in a marketing role.

I was always in creative production. I learned the whole pipeline and everything. That was my marketing role where I was like, that was the last puzzle piece to where I was prepared to start Name and Creative.

So I was, I was there. And ultimately after a year and a half, I got a tug that like, it’s time it, you know, things seem to be aligning and that puzzle piece felt like it was in the puzzle now. And my coworkers knew it and I knew it and I, I, I had some work for my full time job there that I just, I had someone who, I contracted out my full time work there and helped me with my full time job so that I could start naming Creative.

And the CEO was fine with that. But at a certain point he was like, you know what, like you’re doing this, might as well start it and then we’ll just become your client. Oh.

And so it was a really great transition. He was really supportive. Shout out to you, Kyle, if you ever listen to this.

And he’s younger than me and just a brilliant dude, brilliant programmer and CEO. So he was inspiring in many ways there. But that’s kind of how it happened where, you know, it was a nice flow but ultimately there was this, you know, this switch that went on my head.

It’s time. This is the time. So you said it went on in your head, but earlier you said you felt.

Yeah, right. And so it’s important that we Understand that we are more than just our brains and our guts. You know, that we do have the heart piece too.

And for me, in life, I have tended to come from my heart more than my brain, my gut and my heart more than my brain, my mind, my thinking, my processing. And now I’m learning that the balance in life comes from processing it through all three areas. So it’s not just about how I feel in my gut.

It’s not just how I think about it. It’s also how I feel in my heart. But it’s important for me.

I’m a very impulsive. I can be an impulsive person. And so it’s important for me to stop and engage the brain part of it, too, and look at the process and the thinking.

Analyze little bit more. Yeah, I think with those. Those are like three solid filters.

Yes. Your gut is initial and like a baseline or immediate or something that comes and you need to act on it. And your heart is.

I. I feel like that’s, like, where a lot of feeling comes in regarding your morals or who you are as a human. What are my passions? What do I love? Your heart. You know, what fuels my soul.

And your brain is the processor of looking at reality, seeing possibilities, analyzing what’s true, what’s false, you know, what’s real, what’s not real, as best that you can. If you have all those cylinders firing that you’re, I think, making some good decisions. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And.

And it’s important for me to. To have all three. Yeah.

And then, then my will, that’s my choices. That’s where I make the final choice. And, you know, I’m not always right.

I make mistakes just like everybody else. We’re human. You do.

I do. Don’t tell anybody. Okay? But I do, you know, and it’s okay.

I finally gotten to where in life, it’s like, you know, what if I make a mistake? I can start over, or I can pivot, or I can do whatever I need to do and learn from whatever mistake it is I made so that hopefully next time I don’t make it. That’s essential. The universe is so good at bringing me back to the lessons I haven’t completed.

So that they put, you know, it’s just a different person. It’s just a different format. It’s just a different business, whatever it is.

And I go, and if I make the same mistake again, I go, oh, I still need to learn this lesson. I haven’t learned this lesson yet. That’s why the universe is kind Enough to bring it back to me, to show it to me.

And now let me really dig down and figure out what it is I’m supposed to learn from this so that I can move it from a lesson to a blessing. 100%. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. It’s getting me thinking about.

When I taught at the Art Institute for many years, I used. I found this comic that was so perfect. This.

This person made comics that had a meaning, true, like, really tangible value. And one of them was called Becoming Friends with Failure. And it was perfect because it talked about, you know, the.

The art that you see, you know, beautiful art that we see. We see that final piece, but you don’t see the thousand failures that were behind that piece. You have to fail in order to succeed in a way.

You have to fail in order to push through. Through particular boundaries or envelopes to make something new. And becoming friends with it, then you can utilize it rather than push it down or avoid it.

You. You. You use it and build from it.

And then another phrase buddy of mine used to say is fail fast. So if you can be friends with failure and fail fast, you’re in a really good position. Yes.

Yeah, that makes sense. And it reminds me of the. The baseball.

You know, the stats. In baseball, if you can hit a third of the balls, you’re a great. You’re considered a really great hitter.

Like, so you miss two thirds of the balls. Yeah. And I’m still a great hitter.

Sure. If I hit a third of them. So I love that analogy.

So wonderful. All right. How do you distinguish your inner guidance system from your ego voice? Can you define ego voice? Compare it compared to the inner guidance system? An ego voice is typically something where it’s only for me, like, it’s something that I know.

I. And that there’s nothing wrong with self care and self love. And it’s important and I pay attention to it. However, when I’m making decisions that involve other people, then my ego voice is the one that says, well, yeah, just do that.

That’s the best for you, right? Yeah. Yeah. Boy, it’s loaded.

I think deep down we are a part of our environment that we were brought up in, you know, so your filters are trained throughout your experiences in your life, which inform how you treat that ego. You know, there’s some people out there who are, I’m using air quotes, successful, and they’re just feeding their ego and. But yet they fail up.

In my opinion, that’s a failure. But somehow they fail up and they’re in positions of power. And that’s, that’s interesting.

But what I’m getting at is how were you raised or how did you grow up or mature, even if it’s on your own to think of others throughout your decision making? And I think, you know, with the filters that we were talking about, I think your heart might be split into two parts. Your heart informing yourself on what you need for your soul and what you believe is. Is true and what you love, and then also the love that you give.

And so I feel like if we were going to like graph out this inner guidance system, that that ego might be in the heart. And, and that’s not a bad thing because evolutionarily we are. We are evolved to, to survive.

It’s a, it’s a survival of the fittest. Literally, you know, naturally it’s programmed into us. And so I don’t.

You can’t rid of it. And like your. Your question is, you can.

How do you sort through that ego versus the inner guidance system? I think I, I think it takes work. I think ultimately, as long as you’re thinking of others with the actions that you do, there’s the golden rule. But I like the Silver rule, which Carl Sagan had coined, where it’s.

I like the golden rule, don’t get me wrong, I understand, but it’s due unto others. So that’s an action that I’m doing to you. And I don’t think that’s necessarily always good because I could think it’s right to do something to you when it’s actually not what you would prefer.

So the Silver rule is don’t do unto others what you don’t want them to do to you. So for instance, if I don’t want you to try to convert me to Scientology, I. I shouldn’t try to convert you to Scientology because I don’t want. I wouldn’t want you to try to convert me away from Scientology if I’m a science, Scientologist or some.

Something like that. So, so it’s best to just inaction in that moment as far as informing how you treat others. That’s beautiful because I often declare I’m not here to convince anybody of anything.

Right. Yeah, I’m really not. I know what I believe.

I know what I hold true to my life. And if you do, that’s great. We’ll be good friends and hang out.

And if you don’t, we just won’t be good friends and hang out. That’s all. But there’s nothing wrong with it.

I put a post up on Facebook, and, boy, you got to be careful with that. And I talked about after the election, I said, you know, half of my family and friends didn’t vote for the same person I voted for or the same amendments I voted for the same way. And I don’t love them any less because they didn’t vote for the same person I did.

And then the other half did vote for the same, and I don’t love them anymore because they did vote for the. So can’t we all just love each other more regardless? And I don’t even know if my vote is right. Sure.

I have no way of knowing it’s right for me, you know, and so I’m not here to convince you that my way is the only way or even the right way. And for the most part, the reactions were. And this is typical of anything online.

Right. But for the most part, the reactions were very positive and endorsing. And then there were the haters.

Oh, my gosh. And of course, which ones do we do I focus on? Right. Well, I had to take the post down because I just couldn’t take it anymore.

Did you really? Yes. Well, I did it on my private page, and that was fine, but when I put it into a group page, it got pretty ugly. Oh, sure, yeah.

Once you let it out further. And so I tried to respond, and that got some pretty angry feedback. And so I just took it down.

I thought, you know, I don’t want to convince these people that what I’m saying is just to let it go and let everybody be whoever they are, because that’s who they are. That would be wonderful. Anyway.

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Connect with us at infonaymentcreative.com or visit our website at naimandcreative.com to get started. I mean, I love your perspective because it’s so healthy and that’s what the world needs more of. And then number two is online is such a different medium compared to.

Would. Would those haters have said the same thing to your face? And I have a feeling that maybe some of them would have been straightforward and honest. But maybe come out differently.

You know that online. And I, I mean, I, we do a ton of digital marketing, I do a lot of stuff online, but we create for, we try to put only good things out and that’s a focus. But you know, online has this anonymity that you can hide behind an avatar, quite literally or username, where then you feel like you can say anything without consequences, that people know you, but really you know yourself and you’re saying that and that other person is affected.

And again, like, if you apply the silver rule, do you want someone to say those things to what you believe or how do you. How would you want someone to go about arguing or it shouldn’t be an argument discussing these facts or feelings or the mixture of those two. And it’s how we go about our discourse that’s so essential.

Like with respect and understanding that. First off, let’s start with our commonalities. You and I agree on 98% of everything.

We want a home, we want love, we want a take care of our families. We want to have fun, we want to be safe. I mean, those are huge pillars.

Now. Okay, now we can get into. Should it be 5 or 6% tax? Okay, well, maybe we should meet in the middle 5.

5. I mean, I truly think things could be easier if people didn’t let so much feeling and tribalism and division get in the way. And people love to stick on their team.

I voted for or I’ve rooted for the Eagles my whole life or the Colts or whatever it is. I’m a, even, even whatever happens. And I don’t like who doesn’t like the cults.

It’s like, who cares? You know, it’s. We all want the same thing. So my big thing is like what we’re doing right now and the medium of podcasts and long form conversation, I truly believe is one of the answers to having better discourse more nuanced, because it’s all in a nuance.

You know, again, we agree on very big pillars. Safety, everybody, throughout the whole world, throughout the world. I’ve traveled all over.

It’s consistent. It’s our minute differences that are at the surface. And that’s what people talk about.

That’s what gets people to click. That’s what news wants to report because people click and engage in it and engage in the hate. And people, you know, it’s just like, why do people stop at a.

Or slow down past a car wreck? They, you know, disaster attracts, unfortunately. Or why is cops or Jerry Springer such a popular show? There’s a lot of better stuff out there, but I get it. I wouldn’t let my children watch Cops when they were little, and that’s probably a good man.

I still hear about it, you know, and they say we just went over to so and so’s house and watched it. But that show was like, no, you can’t fill your little minds with that. Not when you’re not.

When you’re in my house. Sure, if you need to go to somebody else’s house and do that, but yeah, well, that’s not the world too. So if you’re watching Cops every day, you start to feel like.

And sure, there’s danger all over the place. No matter. The safest town or whatever, there’s.

There’s danger. There’s people who are not well and, and hurt others or are lashing out, whatever it may be. But overall, you know, if you walk around, you’re.

You’re probably going to be pretty good. It’s particular situations or the situations that you put yourself in where you’re now getting into weeds that you shouldn’t be. And now, of course, you’re nearer to a dangerous situation when you should have followed your gut on.

Maybe I shouldn’t go down that road. Yeah. And everybody’s gut’s different, you know, so again, I’m not interested in convincing anybody of anything.

And it’s hard enough to change myself, much less to change other people. I’m a big fan of the serenity prayer, you know, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. I like that.

Everything. Yep. The.

The courage to change the things I can me. And the wisdom to know the difference. It’s a really simple prayer.

So the wisdom to know the difference is where the meat of that is, is like, okay, so what can I change and who can I change? I can only change myself, and that’s hard enough. So I’ve given up on trying to change anybody else, and I’m okay with that. That’s.

That’s so healthy. Because also in changing yourself, my wife and I have been going through this process in regards to our families and now focusing on our daughter and soon to be daughters, where it’s like we don’t have time to even try to be changing people. First off, they’d want to, need, want to be, want to change, and we don’t.

We, we need to focus on ourself. And in focusing on ourself and bettering ourself and becoming examples, we might therefore inspire the people who we would like to Maybe make some adjustments by seeing our example and how we’re living out our lives and they want to maybe reflect that in their own lives and go, look, they’re doing it, they’re proving it. Maybe that is something I should adopt.

Yeah. We call it attraction rather than promotion. So we attract the people that, that we want in our lives based on who we’re being rather than convincing them.

I love that because that, I feel like that’s how I, that’s how naming creative kind of operates. We don’t, we have a partner who does paid advertising for us. So we, if you wanted to do paid advertising where you pump advertising into dollars, into Google or whatever to, to grab people actively, but we really focus on the pillars of who are you and what are you doing and what are you putting out so that when someone finds you, they go, that I connect with that, that’s my way of marketing.

I, I, I, I feel like it’s authentic and it takes longer and it might not be as immediate but in the long run it’s, it’s stronger. Well, and you get to work with like minded people. Right? There you go.

And that’s, that’s who you surround yourself with. Who do you want to be around? I’ve been working with the public my entire life. I did real estate and then I got into the mortgage.

First I started in the restaurant, I was a waitress and then I sold real estate and then I got became a loan officer in the mortgage business and now I’m selling real estate again. And so my entire life I have worked with the general public and let me tell you, sometimes I haven’t liked it. Yeah.

But I’m at a place in my life that if I don’t like it, I don’t work with them. And I don’t do it in any kind of a mean way. I just say, you know, I don’t feel like we’re a really good fit.

Let me introduce you to blah blah, blah or maybe you should find some, you know. And so now I work with like minded people. And when I met you and Eric and Jordan and the beautiful people and sun leaders, I’m like, this is my tribe right here.

This is who I want to hang out with. So and that was part of let’s circle back around. That was my inner guidance system because it felt right.

One of the things Joyce and I agreed on, she’s the friend I went on the 10,000 miles of miracles adventure with, was that if either one of us had a gut feeling about something that both of us had to agree that it felt right. If one of us didn’t agree that it felt right, then we didn’t do it. And we literally traveled 10,000 miles.

We were not always in the greatest of neighborhoods because that’s where they need the most help oftentimes. Never once did we feel unsafe. Never once were we approached maliciously.

We went looking for goodness, and that’s what we found. And that was one of the lessons I talked about in the book, the essential goodness of people. So even the people that didn’t vote the way I vote, they have an essential goodness inside of them, and I look for that.

So guess what I find? That’s what I find is the essential goodness. That’s so healthy. And I think it goes back to.

We’re. We’re way more alike and we want. We want the same things than we are different.

But that’s. I mean, I resonate very much with that. And I feel like you taking the leap for your public speaking career and putting this perspective out, that’s what is needed.

You know, more of it is needed, you know, and it’s just very inspiring. Good, good. I’m glad.

And I agree that more of it is needed, and as I mentioned the other day, is that I’m teaching what I need to learn the most. Right? We’re all teaching what we need to learn the most. I felt that so strongly when I was teaching.

I taught for six years at the Art Institute from 100 to 400 level courses and everything in between, from people much younger than me to people much older than me. And I learned way more than I feel like I taught. You know, I taught a lot.

But in that process, I feel very good about my skills now because I had to learn the fundamentals at such a deep level to facilitate conversations, discussions, critiques, and questions that came at me from all over and all different experiences and be able to feel good about my answers rather than making something up. I was able to speak on it properly, and it obviously evolved. I got better over time, sure.

But, you know, it was. It was profound. And I feel like it’s a cliche when you talk to a teacher.

Yeah, my. My students taught me, or, you know, the process taught me. But it’s very true because you have to learn so much in order to teach it well.

Yes, absolutely. And. And the critics can be a great.

You know, what I’m learning is to embrace because every time we do something like start sunleaders, start naming creative, write a book, go out on the speaking circuit, play In a band. You know, anytime we put ourselves out there, right. We’re vulnerable and we are open.

We’re okay. I’m an open target now, and we don’t want to be a target. Right.

But if we get 98% good and 2% not so good, my lesson right now is to focus on the 98% good. That’s a good batting average. This.

It probably won’t happen that way. But, you know, so far with my book, I’ve not had anybody say, oh, it stinks. I have had a couple people say, well, I started it, but I didn’t finish it.

So, you know, obviously it wasn’t great for them. And I had, in fact, the first person I ever had read the manuscript said to me, well, maybe your second book will be a winner. And, man.

But you know what? It was my lesson to know there are going to be people that don’t like my book. Sure. So what? Oh, yeah.

It’s a creation. Not everybody resonates with it. I don’t like blue, Therefore.

Okay, sorry. Yeah. This piece is blue.

You can buy the green one. Yeah, right. Don’t buy the book or put the book or give it away or buy the second one, honestly, as a compliment.

Because in a way, there’s a lot there in her critique because she knows that you can and probably will write a second one. And so there’s actually a lot of positive there. I learned a lot.

I learned a lot from that encounter, for sure. And you know what? I went ahead and published it anyway. Now, I’ll be honest with you.

It set me back a couple of months, because then I just sat on it thinking, I can’t do this. I can’t do this. I’m too scared.

And then from one person. From one person. Yeah, yeah.

And then finally I just said, you know what? I’m doing this anyway. And a year ago, I put it out there, and I’ve had wonderful phone calls. We did it as a book club on Sun Readers.

And, you know, so I’ve had great experiences from it. Episode 50, by the way, you can listen to our final discussion of that. Oh, thank you for that little plug.

Oh, of course. So I have one last question for you, Josh. Tell us about a time when you knew you had to do something that everyone else thought was completely crazy, but you had to do it.

You had no choice or not everyone else, but people thought it was crazy, and you thought, I have to do this. I have no choice. Have you had any of those experiences? Yeah, I mean, with the business I did get a lot of encouragement, but I think, you know, general consensus is like, dude, you’re starting a business.

Like don’t most of them fail after three, five years? Sure. The big thing that comes to mind is my relationship with my wife and like thinking in context of that, with my heart portion of that that you had talked about at the beginning and in relation to this question, our relationship started with some sort of inner guidance system telling me at, in Vancouver. I was there for a computer graphics conference and they have big celebrations and parties every night and this was like one of the first
ones.

The first night, it’s called the Chapters party for all the chapters all around the world to come and celebrate together at this big club in Vancouver. And we’re all hanging out and dancing. And I don’t dance a lot.

I’m not like a dancer. I like to play the music for people to dance to. But for some reason on top of that, that night I decided to go on the stage and dance, which is extra.

Not you, not me. It’s, it’s a, it was interesting. But I, it was like I, I, when I tell this story, the only word that comes to my mind is magnetism.

It was like I was being pulled by a magnet. Perfect. And I was dancing on the stage and like immediately she appeared, my wife, Han Day.

And there she was dancing on the stage too. And we started to dance together and even though we couldn’t speak, we looked at each other and she’ll say the same thing. We felt this absolute energy that is truly indescribable.

The best word I can say is of magnetism. And it was love at first sight. And from that we hung out that week.

She’s from Turkey, so she’s living in Turkey at the time and I’m from Indiana at the time. And we fell in love though and, and we wanted to keep in touch because we wanted to see what was there and, and, and acknowledge and be together. Sure.

And you know, from some friends and some family, they’re like, you’re crazy. How could you do. You’re literally the longest distance relationship you could imagine.

You have barely any money, you’re a teacher. How are you going to like travel and see each other? What about immigration, all this? And there was so many barriers, there’s so many barriers on like our seven hour difference of communicating and, but it all still felt right throughout all that. And we fell in love more and more through our discussions and keeping in touch even though like the world was at odds with us.

Everything is against that ease. You know, it’s hard enough to have a relationship with someone who’s next door to you. Right.

Right across the world. Adds incredible dynamic. But somehow, you know, we just fought through those that fluff that had nothing to do with what our true love was.

And we’re married. It’s almost been 10 years. And we’re on our second daughter about to pop.

So, hey, for magnetism. Magnetism. Yeah.

Magnets. Got you up on stage, dance. Yeah, usually I’m on stage drumming.

You don’t even dance. Yeah, no, I’m there. She appears.

She’s a good dancer, so it made sense on her part. On her. Yes.

I don’t know why I got you up there. Right. Yeah.

So there’s a force. Yeah, it was. There’s a creative force in this universe that directs our actions that we sometimes can recognize.

Some people call them coincidences, serendipity. Some people don’t even recognize them. And that’s okay, too.

I’m on the lookout for them in my life, at this stage of my life. So I typically will see that magnetism. Like I am in this place exactly at this moment for this reason.

And I didn’t even want to be here. I didn’t want to be on the stage dancing. I didn’t want to be dancing.

Right. Much less on the stage dancing. And here I am, ten years later, madly in love with my wife and two beautiful daughters.

One about to arrive next month. Is that right? Yeah. December 25th.

Yeah. On Christmas. Yeah.

And everybody said, are you crazy? Yeah. Yeah. So congratulations for following your heart and your inner knowing, your inner guidance system that told you this is absolutely the right thing to do.

Thanks. And that she had that same. I’ve only met Hyundai once, but I know she has a very deep inner knowing about herself.

And so congratulations. That’s a beautiful story. That isn’t what I was expecting, but I love love stories and how people met.

And I’m glad. Yeah. That’s just.

It always warms my heart to tell it. And the nuance through that story, like there’s a sub story about an umbrella where it literally felt like if someone was following us around that was a writer, they’d be like, all right, here’s a book and a movie, 100% like, you can’t write this stuff. And it felt, in those moments, unreal, unreal.

It’s so hard to describe. Just like magical week. And so who’s writing the book? I mean, I think I’d like to make it either like a TV show or into, like, one movie in the future.

And because it would be. It would be really neat and, like, actually shoot it in Vancouver. I think it’d be so cool.

With name and creative. I don’t just want to serve clients. We will always serve clients.

But I made it for a much bigger purpose. I’ve designed a game. I have.

I have two podcasts. One I’m not working on actively, but it was my thesis. It’s called the Belief Books, and I think you’d really dig it.

And I want to revive that. I have an idea for a debate show, and then I want to make documentaries and films and TV shows. Oh, my.

That’s beautiful. Oh, you’ve got a great creative spirit about you, and I can’t help it. And a beautiful mind to go with it, to analyze it and plan it out and.

Oh, thank you. Vision it. You know, it’s so important to state that.

State that out loud like you just did. Yeah. So that you can create it.

My inner guidance system has been telling me that ever since I can remember. Awesome. I just.

I’ve felt the tug for so long. And that’s why my life has led me not to, like, be an accountant or something. Chasing money or whatever.

It’s like the opposite. I’ve been paycheck to paycheck only until, like, recently, which is fantastic. Yes.

And. And it’s finally paying off. But it always has felt right, whether it be writing music or designing.

I just can’t. Not good. So I don’t.

I don’t fight it. Yes. And it’s led you to the life you desire and the life you deserve.

I feel bad. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. I wouldn’t change this thing and follow your bliss. Like Joseph Campbell said many, many years ago.

And when we do that, the money will appear and it will be a secondary factor. It won’t. Like, I didn’t write the book.

I didn’t go on the journey. I didn’t do any of that for the money. In fact, it was the only way I could do the book was to not even think about whether I was going to make any money off of it, because otherwise I would never have done it, because I would have been so afraid of the failure of it.

But I had no choice. The and when I say I had no choice spirit was not going to leave me alone until I not only wrote the book, but published the book. And that inner guidance, that voice inside of my head, it gets so strong sometimes.

Like, I have no choice but to do this podcast. I think you remember Me telling you that. Like I said, oh, yeah, I want to do it.

And then I’m like, oh, no, I’m not going to do it. I remember that clearly. And then I had the.

It’s usually in my car. I had the conversation with Spirit about it, and it’s like, oh, I guess I’m doing it now. The same thing is happening with me and with Spirit, with a speaking career.

It’s like, oh, no, I’m too old. I don’t want to spend the money. I don’t want to.

You know. And Spirit’s like, you just, just go ahead and do it, Carol, because you’re going to do it. I’m not going to leave you alone until you do it.

So if any of you experience that nagging voice inside your head, that’s your inner guidance system leading you down a path of happiness and joy. So tell us about Name and Creative. You know, tell us how they.

How we can reach you. Sure thing. Thanks for giving me the plug.

This has been a pleasure talking to you. I feel like we could go all day. I’d like to have you as a guest on the Name and Creative Show.

Awesome. And people can listen to. Since you clearly are listening to this podcast.

You like podcasts. So if you want to listen to the Name and Creative show, you can go to naming creativeshow.com or catch us on any of your podcasters that you prefer. Apple, Spotify, YouTube.

But, you know, naming creative.com is our hub. You can, you can reach out to me directly@joshamencreative.com and I’d just love to talk to you about what you’re building, what your plans are and how we can get you there by our creative talents and production expertise. It’s fulfilling being able to pop into all these different businesses and help them flourish.

We don’t. By the way, you had mentioned something through in the middle of this conversation where, you know, if something doesn’t align with who you wanted to work with as a realtor, you refer them out. We’ve had to do that, too, with people that I don’t think we’d feel good marketing that and growing that, because we help people grow and get bigger and get it into more people’s hands or whatever that thing is.

And so there’s been work where it’s just like, that’s not in alignment and we wish you the best kind of. And we, you know, if you need a resource, we can hook you up with one of our partners, but, you know, we can’t take that on. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and it’s a great way to sleep at night, right? 100%. Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Yeah. Well, thank you, Josh. It has been such a pleasure to chat with you and just to get to know you even more and you enlighten the world with your creativity, your perspective and your happiness.

So thank you for that. Thanks so much, Carol. I appreciate it.

You can reach me on Facebook at Carol Jones Hasbrouck or you can email me at carolcells st.petemail.com and I’d be happy to chat with you, tell you more about the book I wrote and the journey I took and how you too can be a servant leader. And you can also reach us@sunleaders.

org right? Correct. Yeah. Sunleaders.

org and check us out there. And we’re just happy that you came with us today on this journey on our podcast and we wish you well with your own very, your very own inner guidance system. Sam.