Hi, welcome to the Conscious Connection Podcast. Following your inner guidance system. I’m your host Carol Hasbrouck.

On this show we uncover ways to follow your inner guidance system so you can live your most authentic and fantastic life. Our mission is to help you learn how to differentiate between your ego thoughts and your true authentic higher self which can lead you to your life purpose. On new adventures and even new callings, you can finally live the life you desire and the life you deserve.

Now let’s dive into conscious connections with Dr. Dural R. Pulley, my spiritual leader of today’s church. Dr. Pulley celebrates more than 45 years in ministry and over 25 years as a mental health professional. His life’s work is to bridge the gap between theology and psychology.

He has traveled across this country and other nations empowering clergy, clergy and the like to live holistically healthy, balanced and well rounded lives through conferences, workshops and seminars. He is the spiritual leader of today’s church which has locations in St. Petersburg, Tampa, Baltimore, Atlanta, North Carolina and Nigeria. Yes, so we are international now.

We’ve gone big time. Dr. Pulley is the President and CEO of the Church of the Everlasting Kingdom, an international network of leaders, assemblies, ministries and businesses who are all accepting, Bible based and Christ centered. He is the author of four books and 15 devotional journals.

Dr. Pulley was instrumental in helping me and encouraging me to finish writing and publishing my book called 10,000 Miles of Miracles which you can find on Amazon.com and that book is about the Dames Gone Wild summer service adventure where we traveled 10,000 miles helping people, pets and planets. I’ve used Dr. Pulley not only as a friend, I shouldn’t say used, I’ve been with him as a friend. He’s helped me through counseling sessions and one of the things I had a problem with was publishing the
book because I felt very vulnerable and wasn’t sure if you all would like it or not.

And he encouraged me to just go ahead and do it. So let’s welcome Dr. Pulley. Good morning.

Good morning. So good to be here. I’m so pleased to have you here and as you know, you’ve been instrumental in my life.

I met you seven years ago when a friend of mine said, you’ve got to come hear this man speak. Speak. And I’ve been following you around ever since and I’m so grateful because my life has changed immensely.

So tell us about your life in ministry. And I know you started at a very young age and then you form you formed some churches and tell What I’d like to know is that how did that come about in spite of what other people might have thought? Yes. Well, I started preaching when I was seven.

I just always felt at home at church. Church always felt home to me. And I’ve always been comfortable in spiritual settings.

And so it was a youth day that we had at the church where different young people were doing different things. Singing, dancing, poetry, whatever we desired to do. And we had a guest speaker who was supposed to speak.

And the day before, he canceled. Last minute cancellation. And I saw the look of distress on the youth leader’s face, and she was grappling, trying to get people to do things to fill the time.

And I just said, I’ll preach. And she was like, what? Really? Yes. I said, yeah, I’ll preach.

And I saw her just become so calm and so relieved. And then I went home and told my aunt, who was a minister. I said, I’m preaching tomorrow.

She was like, you’re doing what? I said, I’m preaching. She said, preaching what? I said, I don’t know. But elderly, needed somebody to preach, so I’m going to preach.

And so that was the beginning of my journey of being a minister. You know, I was very short at the time, so I had to stand on a milk crate. And I was very nervous.

You know, my hand was shaking until I got the mic in my hand, and then I felt comfortable. Spirit took over and flowed. And from that one experience, I started getting engagements to preach at different churches and different cities.

And it just kept growing and growing and growing. At seven years old. At seven years old.

And my parents were not really fans of the idea. They felt like I was too young. And my father had started off as a basketball player in the minor leagues, and so his dream was for me to become a basketball player.

And I had very little interest in sports. And so my mother, she thought that I would be like a lawyer because, you know, as a child, I was very inquisitive and not just settling for what people said. So she thought I was gonna be a lawyer, and she thought I was too smart to be a minister.

She was like, oh, that’s what people do when they can’t do anything else. They preach. So they thought I would grow out of it.

Well, it’s been 47 years, and I haven’t grown out of it. I’m still doing it. Yes, yes.

That’s fantastic. And I’m blessed that you’re still doing it. Now, you mentioned that spirit took over while you were.

While you had that Microphone. And, and that’s a lot of what we talk about on this podcast is many people call it different things. Inner guidance system, higher voice, higher self, inner voice, spirit.

And so tell me about that. So what did that mean to you? That spirit took over? So it’s like I’m seven, so I have a limited vocabulary and limited experiences compared to my audience. And at some point, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the movie Ghost where it’s like he’s.

And then this, you know, Whoopi Goldberg, this spirit comes through and she knows things that she didn’t know before and she’s energized and able to connect with the spirit world. So when I say spirit took over, this energy just engulfed my body and I began saying things that a 7 year old wouldn’t normally say. And I had knowledge and understanding of the scriptures and, and just I was empowered and people were inspired and I knew that it wasn’t me because in the beginning I was kind of nervous
and my voice was shaken and all of that.

But when this presence came over me, when this power filled me, I was filled with knowledge and wisdom and I was able to articulate and enunciate and I felt very empowered and people were inspired. And so were you afraid in the beginning? I was absolutely afraid. But once the spirit took over, were you afraid after the fact when you looked back and you thought, oh my gosh, what happened? I was not afraid in the midst of it because I knew it wasn’t me, you know, so I never felt like I had to do it
again because I knew it wasn’t me the first time.

So with these engagements, I just felt like spirit would take over again and make it happen if I just made myself available, if I was open. So I wasn’t afraid. I think my parents and my family, they were much more afraid than I was.

And people in the church, they were like, well, you need to be sure that this is really what you want to do. This is not just like a one time fluke kind of thing. And so we did some fasting and praying.

You know, I grew up in a very traditional Pentecostal type of church. And so we fasted for three days and I had an actual visual vision of Jesus coming to me in my dreams and saying, this is what I desire for you to do and you’re going to be successful at it. And once I had that experience, I was completely at peace.

And so then if I remember correctly, you started your own church. Yes. So from there I started preaching at 7.

And then it kind of went national when I was 12, where I was preaching on television and radio and in different cities. It was just. It was like a snowball.

Kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then when I was in college at Morgan State University, I formed a church. Like some of my fraternity brothers and sorority sisters were staying in the Baltimore area.

And so we formed a church, which was Church of the Everlasting kingdom. And at 19, I started a church. 19 years old.

19 years old as a sophomore at Morgan State University. People tell you you were crazy. Yeah, they told me I was very crazy and that nobody was going to follow me as a minister at 19 years old.

And I just felt like this is what I’ve been inspired to do and it’s going to work. And we had 50 members. Like in the first.

Before the first year, we had 50 members and we had people of all different ages. Like my grandmother joined the church. And so we had a wide.

It wasn’t just young people, but we had a wide variety of age groups. And that was a big part of the financial support at the ministry. Because we were college students, but because people were connected and joined that had stable jobs and careers and families, it really backed the church in its existence.

Huh. So was this premeditated? Did you plan it well? Did you pray about it? We were on. People were saying I should start a church.

Okay. I was like, I liked going around traveling and preaching. And they said, well, you really need to start a church because you’re going to be in college for four years.

And so I was. I don’t know. So I went back to that three day fast kind of thing.

And during spring break, some of my fraternity brothers, they prayed with me and we fasted for three days. And that’s when God gave me the vision of the church, the name. And that I was to bring people from the worldly way of looking at things through the church and then into the kingdom.

That there was this more expansive way of seeing God beyond the limitations of the traditional church, which I know is the teachings that I benefit from now and am. A big part of my life is the kingdom teachings. And I still came from the world through the church and into the kingdom.

And so a lot of that worldliness still, of course, is attractive. And then the things I’ve learned in the church setting, that those beliefs are something I have to work through. And so you mentioned fasting now a couple of times.

So that is one of your spiritual practices. What other spiritual practices do you do? I’m a pretty routine kind of person. I think when I think about my spirituality, I think about consistency and variety.

You know, that I have consistent variety in what I do. It’s consistent, it’s daily, but I do a lot of different things. Like one of the things I do is I pray with my plants.

Okay. Each one of my plants has a different name. One is called Increase, one is called Growth, one is called More.

And so each one of my plants, they have a different name. And when I’m watering my plants, I’m thinking about these concepts and I’m speaking them aloud as I water them and move them around and prune them and get the dead leaves off. So even watering my plants, which is a very everyday kind of mundane activity, I come to it with a spiritual idea and it becomes a spiritual practice.

Watering my plants as an example. Yeah. So that brings the, the practical part of our lives.

Right. So when, when many people think, and myself included, sometimes I think about when people are praying that they’re just off somewhere secluded, sitting quietly, which is of course one way to do it. And oh gosh, I don’t have time for that.

You know, my life is too busy for that. And you’re like, no, I, I do it while I water my plants. I do.

And I plants the things I want to bring into my life. Yes. And then I think about those things as I water my plants.

Absolutely. Yeah. And it feels very spiritual to me.

And I’m connecting with nature, I’m seeing growth, I’m looking at the weeding process. And as the process of my life that things, you know, one of the scriptures says that I am the true vine, my Father is the gardener, you are the branches. You know, anything that doesn’t bring forth fruit is released, is discarded, and that which brings forth fruit is pruned so it can bring forth more fruit, much fruit, fruit that remain.

And so I’m thinking about those spiritual ideas because I follow Jesus as my wayshore and that’s what he did. He took everyday kind of things like farming and selling, merchandising and being shepherding. He took everyday things and drew spiritual meaning from everyday experiences.

So I look for my spirituality and my day to day experiences from person to person, from place to place, from thing to thing. I find the spirituality in it. And that’s beautiful because then it’s a constant constant because I always wondered when it said pray without ceasing, how I was going to do that.

But if I’m open, if I realize that I’m a spiritual being and that every interaction is spiritual and every person is spiritual, and every experience is spiritual, then I experience it that way every day, all day long. That’s beautiful. See, I just learned something new.

And you also mentioned forgiveness work. I’ve heard you talk about that. And you’ve actually helped me in my process of forgiving a couple of people that I didn’t think deserved to be forgiven.

And I remember you saying, well, if he doesn’t deserve it, who does? Who among us does deserve to be forgiven? And that was very impactful for me. And in fact, I’m tearing up just thinking about it. And I’m still working on it and with this particular person, and I’m much further along in that process than I was.

I’m comfortable being in his presence. So I’m still working on it. So what is your daily forgiveness practice look like? So I do believe in sitting on ready is what I call it.

Sitting already. I’m ready to forgive anybody for anything, anytime. And so as opposed to waiting for somebody to do something and then garnering this forgiveness, and I try to see it as a daily thing that I’m going to do something and I’m going to need to be forgiven.

Somebody else is going to say something or not say something, do something or not do something. And to me, forgiveness means to release it and let it go. And so we’re all going to need to be forgiven every day.

So if I put that in my mind, as opposed to, oh my God, I can’t believe she said that. Oh my God, I can’t believe he did that. How could they do this to me? As opposed to, we all want to do stuff, and we’re going to need to release that and let it go.

And so forgiveness to me is releasing and letting go. It’s like when we eat foods, you know, we get the nutrients, the vitamins, the minerals from it, and then we release the waste, you know, and that’s a part of the system. Like when I came here today, I asked them, where was the restroom? Because that’s a part of the system.

I drank water, I ate, and so I needed to let some things go. And so for me, forgiveness is a daily practice that I’m getting the lessons and the blessings from every experience and all of that extra stuff that’s not serving me well, I forgive it, I release it, and I let it go. So for me, it looks like lighting a candle, getting on my knees and putting my finger towards my fingers toward the flame and seeing whatever was said or not said Whatever was done or not done, forgiving myself, seeing it
like going throughout through my fingertips and whatever somebody else said that I’m carrying that negative energy because for me, bitterness and resentment and unforgiveness is like negative energy that stays in the body.

So with me doing this visualization of it coming out of my fingertips, I’m releasing in and letting it go from my body, that I’m no longer carrying this from my heart, from my mind. I’m letting it go through my fingertips into the light, into the fire, into the candle, the wax, and I’ve released it and let it go. A major point we continually emphasize at Naming Creative is that we build legacy websites.

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Into the nothingness from which it came. Yes, I remember you teaching that too. Absolutely.

And I love how you say that you’ll need to be forgiven. Oh yeah, right. And so often people will.

When we talk about forgiveness, I have a friend who says, I know I’m gonna screw up sometime today, sometime, and I hope you’ll forgive me. So of course I’m going to forgive you for whatever you’ve said or not said, done or not done. And that’s a wonderful way to realize that we’re all human.

You know, we’re all. I truly believe we are all doing the best that we can with what we know. And at this point in time.

Absolutely. And that we live in a very kind universe. You’ve taught me about lessons and blessings and God is going to give me that lesson over and over and over until I can graduate from that class.

The beauty of the teaching that you do is that it’s so practical. I can relate to it. Oh, I’m in a class and I was a very good student and I loved going to class and I loved learning.

But some of these lessons, man, I don’t love them so much until I realized from learning from you that, oh, as soon as I get the lesson, as soon as I understand what it is that the universe, God, source, spirit, whatever you want to call it, is trying to teach me and I don’t make that same choice the next time, then I get to graduate from the class and receive the blessing. So what is it you call A lesson as a. I believe that everything is good.

Right. So the lesson for me is the good that’s not apparent. There we go.

The good that we don’t see immediately. It takes processing to see this as good. We don’t experience it.

And the immediate is good. The blessing is the good. That’s obvious.

We can see it. It feels good to us. That’s the blessing.

So in every experience, there’s going to be a lesson and it’s going to be a blessing. Kind of like the sun and the moon. Every day you’re going to get the sun, the sun is going to shine and the moon is going to glow.

Lessons and blessings. The light and the dark. And you talk about that too.

That we all have. It’s not light or dark, it’s light and dark. Amen.

And we all have that. All of us have it. And many times I don’t want to look at my dark side.

And so if I need to learn something about that, then the universe is so kind to put that person or place or thing in front of me that I react to. And in many of my counseling sessions with you, you listen so patiently and so kindly and I’d think I know exactly what he’s going to say. And you’d say, oh, Carol, they’re just holding up a mirror.

Yes. And I’d go, oh, really? Really. So I know now that when I react, when I get upset, when I’m disturbed by anything, that it’s time to look inside and see what part of me I don’t want to recognize.

Not that I have to beat myself up over it. I don’t even need to judge myself or condemn myself. But if I choose, I can look inside and say, oh, there’s that little bit of darkness that I didn’t want to, or big bit of darkness that I didn’t want to recognize and acknowledge.

And then as any darkness, when you shine the light on it, the darkness dissipates. The darkness disappears or dissipates. Yeah.

So I like that the kingdom teaching is not about or it’s about and yes, both and. And not either or. Both and not either or.

So that’s been so helpful for me. One of the things I would like to clarify, our church is all accepting Bible based, Christ centered, metaphysical church and kingdom is our brand of new thought. Did I get that right? You got it right.

Okay, good. You’re a great presider, Carol. Oh yeah, I am a presider at the third Sunday at church.

So what’s the metaphysical part? Mean, so meta means beyond. And physical means surface. So metaphysical means going beyond the surface to get a deeper meaning.

So there’s a surface experience that you’re having that we all have. Like water in my plants. It’s physical, it’s the surface as I’m watering my plants because we don’t water plants, plants die.

But the metaphysical is beyond the surface of just watering the plants. What can I learn from this experience? How can I grow from this experience? So that’s the, the good that’s not apparent. It’s beyond the surface.

I’m going deeper to add spiritual meaning or find or discover the spiritual meaning from physical experience. So every life and every experience in my life is physical and it’s metaphysical. If I have a health challenge, you have physically what’s going on, and then metaphysically what are the thoughts, the feelings, the beliefs that have caused this physical manifestation.

Even if I look at the Bible, there’s a literal physical meaning of the Scriptures, but then there’s a deeper meaning, a life application, how I can make this applicable and useful to me. And that’s what we do on the Daily Download. Absolutely.

So every weekday morning I get to help Dr. Pulley at 6:30 on his Facebook page and we’ll talk about all that at the end, how people can find you. But from 6:30 to 7, I help put up the banners. And so I have to stay very focused on the teaching, which has just been such a blessing for me.

And I listened to the Bible verse that we’re. Or chapter that we’re going to be talking about that day and beforehand. And so you break it all down in Pulley points.

One, two, three. Yes. And you break it down to a level that I believe almost all of us understand.

And if we don’t, then you encourage us to ask questions so that you can explain it further. And I grew up in a church that we didn’t learn the Bible that way. So the Bible was kind of a.

It just wasn’t personal for me. I had no personal connection to it. That’s the best way to describe it.

And now through the Daily Download particularly, I get a personal experience of each chapter that we’re going through. So tell us a little bit about how the Daily Download started and how people can find you on that as well as the purpose of it. So it says, so I think about like our daily bread, one of the popular prayers is a prayer that Jesus taught his disciples, give us this day our daily bread.

So daily gives the idea that there’s lessons and blessings for me today, there’s a message, Fresh bread. That is for me today. And so I get a download.

Spirit gives me a message. More than being a preacher, a teacher, a therapist, author, I see myself as a message and a messenger that I get a message that’s kind of like downloaded to me, and then I share that download with other people on a daily basis. So that’s where we get daily download.

And then when we have a replay, we call it the reload, the daily download reloaded. And then on Sundays, it’s uploaded for our Sunday worship experiences. So that’s.

I just love the Bible. And so many people have used the Bible in very harsh ways to abuse people, to use people, to oppress people. And you can look at it like that, and you can get that from it.

But I choose because, you know, I’m also a theologian, so I’ve been to seminary and degrees and all that kind of stuff. So you can look at the Bible as literature and can study it in a very academic kind of way. You can look at it literally, which is my traditional church background, or you can look at it for life application.

That when I look at it, I’m looking for life application. I’m not getting into the controversials and did this actually happen or not? That’s not what I’m looking at the Bible for. I’m looking at it for life application.

So I’m not doing a literary criticism that I can do when people do as theologians. I’m not looking for the literal part of it, as often people do in most churches. I’m looking at it for life application.

How can I use the principles and the practices of the Scripture to make me a better person and to help me to live a better life? So for me, that cuts out the controversy and the arguing and the debating and all of that, because I’m not looking for that. I’m looking at life application. How can this help me to be my best self and to live my best life? And so you do that in the Daily Download.

You break it down very simply. I mean, it’s understandable, it’s applicable. Yeah.

And how can people find. You find the Daily Download. So the Daily Download is on YouTube.

I have a YouTube channel, Dr. Pulley with Dr. Spelt out D O C T O R P U L L e y. That YouTube channel is Dr. Pulley. They can also go on my website, drpully.com Again, that doctor spelled all the way out and pulley, just like the simple machine Pulley.

And it’s on Facebook it’s on YouTube. I have a smaller version of the Daily Download called the Mental Note. Just to give us about two minutes to give people things to think about and to.

With their appetite for the Daily Download, the Mental Note, that’s on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, TikTok, and all that same branding. Dr. Pulley, they can find it there as well. Okay, wonderful.

Because it’s. I encourage the listeners to just take a look, and if it resonates with you, then you’ll. You’ll learn all kinds of things.

Now, when we start out the Daily Download, you talk about the kingdom of God being inside of us, that all of the answers to all of the questions that I have. That the listeners have. That you have.

Yes. Are inside of us. Now tell me a little bit about that.

So I believe, like breath, to me, I experience God spirit as breath. And so just like my lungs inhale and exhale, expand and contract, I believe that that is God, that that’s the life energy that’s in all of us. And so because that breath is in me, because God is inside of me, spirit is inside of me.

The answer to every question is inside of me. The solution to every seeming problem is inside of me. And the resolution to whatever the issue is, is inside of me.

So when I breathe consciously, because I’m breathing unconsciously, not thinking about it a whole lot of the time, but when I consciously breathe, it helps me get in touch with the answers, the solutions, and the resolutions that are already within. And so in the beginning, when you first started doing these kind of practices, were you confused? And if so, how could you. Were you confused between God’s voice and ego’s voice? And if so, how could you differentiate them? I’m assuming now you’ve been
doing it for so long, it’s not even an issue, but in the beginning, perhaps it was.

I know for me it was. How do you differentiate between what your physical, your worldly self is encouraging you to do and something that spirit is encouraging you to do? So I started with hearing this voice very young, when I first started preaching, because I didn’t know what to say. And I asked God to tell me what to say because I don’t know what to say.

And so that voice, that spirit, it manifests to me as. It’s like a feeling of love that comes over me when I know that that spirit, it’s like. It’s very loving, and it empowers me to be loving.

And it also gives me a sense of joy beyond just being happy, because of what’s happening. It’s like this inner joy, this energy, this exuberance, this vibrance, vibrancy that just kind of comes. So I experience this love, joy, and then peace.

There’s also something about it. In the midst of it being loving and joyful, there’s also very peaceful. It’s like a calm assurance.

It’s like a knowingness on a very deep level that helps me know spirit’s voice. Often it’s confirmed through other people. When I’m thinking and feeling and sensing this love, joy and peace, I’ll see something, I’ll hear something, Somebody will say something.

I’ll read something that confirms what I was thinking and feeling. It also keeps coming back. It doesn’t go away.

It can come to me in dreams and visions if I’m not conscious of it. And so those are some of the ways that I know it’s spirit versus me versus you. Just telling yourself what you want to hear.

Because often it’s not what I want to do or what I want to hear, right? That’s in the beginning. When I first started hearing God’s voice, that was what it was. It’s like, no, I don’t want to do that.

When in my book, I talk about. I was told that I was going to write a rap song. And I said, well, that’s just the craziest thing I’ve ever heard of.

I am not writing a rap song. And spirit and I had a long conversation over the week that he would tell me, I’m writing a rap song. No, I’m not.

That’s just stupid. And one day I found myself picking up my journal and going into my bedroom and telling my roommate, who was my fellow dame gone wild, that I was going in the bedroom to write a rap song. And I don’t even like rap.

I didn’t really know what I mean. I knew what rap was, right? I could say, you doing this rap song. So.

And this is only this 12 years ago. I was no spring chicken. And so I go into my bedroom with my journal and my pen, and I thought, well, at least I need to put some music on so that I get the beat going a little bit.

Cause I didn’t know what was going to happen. Oh, my goodness. My son told me later I was listening to hip hop.

I wasn’t listening to rap. I did not know the difference. Fifteen minutes later, swear to God, 15 minutes later, I walk out and I said, well, it’s all written, and I don’t have the music to it.

Yet I’m sure at some point in time I’ll tell you this, but I do have the words in my book. And we would. Joyce and I would say it with a beat when we would travel around the country and people would ask us about our story and we would read the.

It’s called the Freedom Bus Bus because we named my car the Freedom Bus. And it’s pretty wild. So that was some one time when Spirit would not leave me alone.

When it was something I absolutely. I just thought it was the crazy. But I had to do it.

I had to do it. Spirit was not going to be quiet until I wrote that rap song. And I didn’t write it.

I surely did not write it. I saw. So what else? This has been such a pleasure.

I want to have you tell us how we can get in touch, how the audience can get in touch with you. You had mentioned a couple of different ways. Is that the best way on.

Yes. You can go to my website, Dr. Pulley.com d o c T-O-R p u l l e y.com even if people. I’m an email person, so if people have questions or desire to connect, they can email me directly.

And again, that’s Dr. Pulley. D O C T O R P U L L e y mail.com Facebook Dr. Pulley. Instagram, Twitter, all that’s Dr. Pulley.

Snapchat, TikTok, all of it’s Dr. Pulley. They can. I have books on Amazon, as you mentioned.

I write a book every year or two. So those are all on Amazon. Again, Dr. Pulley.

And yeah. Yes. That’s wonderful.

Yeah. And I’ll check out the books for sure. Especially if you want to learn more about what we’ve been talking about today.

There’s a Kingdomology 101 is the name of a book that I refer to often when I’m remembering the Kingdomology teachings. So thank you. Thank you.

You know how much I love you. I love you. And I’m so happy to sit across from you.

I’m so proud of you. Thank you. That you actually did the book.

You completed it. And as you see, it’s opening doors. It is.

Is opening doors. You know, we do when we follow that inner guidance, when we listen to that voice that sometimes scares us and makes us uncomfortable if we just follow it, that one door leads to another door leads to another door and it keeps growing and bringing us so much fulfillment and positive. Positively influencing and impacting others.

Yes, I agree. I totally agree. And my dream is to speak in front of audiences.

And so I have recently, Spirit’s been prompting me to reach out, so I have started to do that. And I have a couple of speaking engagements. So if anyone listening would like to hear more about the book and and our crazy journey of Dames Gone Wild summer service adventure helping people, plants and pets, then I’d be happy to come speak to your group about it.

You can find me on Facebook at Carol Jones Hasbrouck and I’m also a real estate agent, so I help people make memories in their homes. I absolutely love showing off my hometown and helping you buy and sell your sacred place that you call home. If you want to email me, it’s carolcellssaintpetmail.com and you will hear back from me again next month.

I have just so enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here.

Dr. Pulley. It’s been a pleasure. Sam.