Thank you for joining the SunLeaders podcast service management section. I am your host, Ryan Bankston, founder of CIO Legal. We focus on IT and operations for solo practice and small law firms.

Get a part time CIO for your firm starting at 200amonth, month to month. I’m very happy to be joined by Tracy Tennison today, USF graduate and office administrator of Bradley’s Tampa office where she is responsible for the firm’s overall administration, including accounting and finance, operations, information technology, human resources, marketing and facilities management, including leases and office build outs. That’s a lot.

Previously of the firms Ramy and Kampfoli and Lardner and then before that Morin, Heilson and Simon. Tracy, thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me.

I’m excited to be here. Me too. So tell me, when did you know that your career would be in legal administration? So it all started, I guess, if I had to think back, way back to high school.

So I went to Gaither High School, Tampa native, born and raised here in Tampa. And I had an amazing guidance counselor who referred me to a legal office, which is where I started. So Moran and Tyleston, back in 1996, probably shouldn’t name years, it’s going to date me, but, but that’s where I started as a legal assistant, worked there as a paralegal, worked my way up through the ranks and did marketing and office operations and basically everything.

So I worked with them for 14 years. It was an eminent domain law firm. Learned a lot about the law, legal life, everything.

So it was, it was really great. And, and that’s where I got my start. That’s wonderful.

That’s wonderful. So you knew pretty early on, once you got started that it was sort of a calling or a career for you. It was, it was something I, I think I enjoyed and excelled in and was very happy to continue moving forward with and thought I wanted to be an attorney.

Thought I was gonna go to law school, even applied, got in, took the LSAT and decided, nah, I’d rather manage attorneys. Got it, Got it. Why did you make that decision? Well, I think one was financial, two was, you know, it was just overburdensome with family careers, trying to balance the work life balance at that time.

And this was a different time of life. So we’re talking, you know, many years ago, but, but trying to figure out how to pay off student debt and also have children at the age that I wanted to have children. So yeah, I thought instead of doing that, let me Stick with the law firm and let me continue to move up, which is what I did.

They continued to pay me very well, which was also enticing. And so I stuck around for a long time, so 14 years there. And when.

When I did finally leave there, the only reason was because they moved sort of out of town. So it was a new Port Richey office and then landed with Foley and Lardner, which was an amazing firm and got a lot of great knowledge and benefits there. That’s wonderful.

That’s wonderful. It’s curious, you said that work life balance was part of that decision. Cause when I read what you’re responsible for at Bradley, I mean, it’s just.

It’s so expansive. I’ll just touch it again. Accounting, finance, operations, it, human resources.

I mean, it’s a lot. Is work life balance something that legal administrators struggle with, or is it still very fitting to what you envisioned early on? I think it is something that we struggle with and, you know, depending, of course, on the age. But for me, definitely, I wanted children.

I had children at a little bit of an later age, I guess, is what most would maybe consider. So my first child came at 32. So I. That was definitely a concern and a major incentive for me to make sure that that happened in my life.

And so I wanted to make sure I had the right hours, the right consistency, the right drive, all of those things that came into play. That’s wonderful. I had my child late as well, in my late 30s, and I don’t think I was as thoughtful in my career decision making.

I definitely met a point where, you know, I really struggled with that work life balance and kind of had to make a critical decision for the family. And thankfully, it got a lot better. So I know how.

How tough that can be. Definitely. I see it all the time with our attorneys.

Yeah. Well, of all those things that you cover as the office administrator for Bradley, what part of the job is most satisf for you? Most satisfying? Hmm. It’s an interesting question.

Probably I am motivated to get things done. And so I love. Even though I don’t love the financial part of it, so that’s not my forte.

It’s not my favorite thing to do. I love budgets, though, and I love to make sure I stay within budget, and I love to make sure our firm is prospering and doing well and making money. But I think, you know, more so is the culture.

I am really. I thrive on people. It is a people business, and making sure that our firm has the right culture, that we have the right people that are hired.

When we do our retention process and recruiting, making sure that the teams meld well together and work prosperously together to make sure that their attorney’s needs are met and the attorneys are happy at the same time. God, sounds very challenging, but also very rewarding. And speaking of people, I mean, we know each other through the association of Legal Administrators, or ala we’re.

By the way, congratulations. You’re now the vice president of our local Suncoast chapter. Thank you so much.

Very excited about that. Yes. So I’d love to talk a little bit or hear about the ALA ALA Suncoast and what it’s mean to you as far as your career growth.

When did you find ALA I should have probably researched this a little bit more to give you the exact year. So I’ve been on the board for six or seven years, but I’ve been associated with them for probably at least 10 years. I love the association of Legal Administrators.

I can wholeheartedly say they have brought a lot of career prospects and just innovative ideas to me. So starting off as just a member was very easy peasy. You go in, you go to meetings, you meet people, we meet business partners.

I can save money for my firm. And then I decided quickly I wanted to be part of the board and joined the board and handled their education and IT portions for about four years and then moved on to their business partner relations area, I guess you could call it. I’m not sure what my exact title is, but handling all of the business partners and now just recently handling both business partners and taking over the vice president responsibilities.

So it’s an amazing organization and just has so many facets to it that help someone like me grow, especially a young person. Now I’m not young anymore. I can’t, I guess, kind of tote that anymore.

But when I did join, I was a little bit younger. But not saying it’s not for anybody who is older as well, but I think for me personally, I grew so much based on the learning, the development, the professional development, the relationships that I built through the organization, being able to form those relationships and trust people so that I could help my firm move forward better and more efficiently by knowing the right people, knowing the right questions to ask, knowing the right vendors to
hire, all of those kind of things. Got it.

Got it. When you joined in, did you already know some people there? Like, had some friends? Not really, no. No, I. I was kind of pushed into it a little bit, and I thought, I don’t know if this is for me, I’m a little more shy.

This is my first podcast. You know, I. I am a little. I don’t like public speaking, so for me, it was a little bit of a push.

However, I am so happy that I did it because I met probably three or four amazing people that really made the difference. Yeah. And I think, you know, and in a group of 85 people, it’s really hard to meet everybody.

But you meet those few people that really make the difference and really help push your career forward and give you that introspective thought process of, what do I want to do? What do I want to be? Who do I want to be? How do I want to portray myself? You know, all of those things. And. And I think I learned a lot through that role, that position, joining that team of how to do exactly that.

That’s awesome. That’s awesome. We’ve been doing a great job.

I know, it’s. I’ve just joined this year as a business partner. Thank you.

Thank you for joining, for bringing us in. No. So excited to have you on the team.

The very first event that I went to that you coordinated, I mean, it was just so much fun, and it was impressive how much attention to detail there was in the. In the catering and the space that we had reserved for ourselves, the entertainment and then, of course, the interaction to get people there, get them excited, and it was just so much fun. That night just blew by.

Thank you. And I could tell how much of that was because of the hard work that you put into it. I mean, you were responsible for almost all of that event.

Right. You put everything together, and it was so smooth and flawless. Very exciting.

I appreciate that. I love event planning. So that’s what everybody tells me I probably should have done in, you know, a past life or whatever, but.

But. But I do really enjoy that and thrive on these relationships and building more relationships for our, you know, new people coming in and with our business partners. And.

And I appreciate you being part of the team, and it has been a phenomenal process, so. And I’m so glad you made it to that event. It was a great event.

It was great. And speaking of events, we’ve got another one coming up at the end of the month. Do you want to tell our listeners a little bit about it? We do.

So we have the Business Part showcase, which is our largest event of the year. So every year, we host several events through for our members and also for our business partners. But we typically have quarterly events for the business partners.

Now, this one is our Largest event. It is the showcase. One that sort of showcases our business partners.

Our business partners are amazing. They obviously sponsor everything and make sure that we can continue to do all of this and provide the support and this education to all of our members. And so thank you again for being a very important business partner for us.

So doing that, we set up a casino night, which is super fun, over at the Hilton downtown and have a dj. We have food and great drinks and just great camaraderie and try to make everything a really great time by adding in little perks. This year we even have.

I’ve got a photographer coming in to do professional headshots for all of our members and, oh, so, you know, some small perks that sometimes cost you money through your firm, but you can get for free through us. That’s wonderful. So, so very, very excited about that.

It is August 27th at the Hilton. Would love to have anybody come. If anybody has any interest, definitely hook up with me.

I can give you a number, email offline here or on here, but. But would love to add more people, get more people involved. I think with our members, they benefit so much from having these relationship with business partners.

Whether you’re a small firm or a large firm or medium, you get the truth from our members. So, you know, the truth is in the pudding, as they say. Right.

So, you know, you can look online, you can find all the great resources, all the best Google Ads, but it really comes down to the tried and true. Have you used them? Do you know them? What can you tell me about them? What is going to make me want to hire them and give them my money? Right. And that is what we do.

And, and we really try to promote the best business partners that we can to make sure that our law firms continue on in the best, most efficient way that is possible. That’s wonderful. That’s wonderful.

It is a privilege to be able to go. I’m so honored to be a part of it. Now, I heard you say that of course this event is for members, for business partners, but anyone could come if they reach out to you.

How would somebody reach out to you if they want to come check ALA out? Reach out to me either via phone or email. I can give that to you right now quickly if you’d like. Yeah, sure.

My direct line is 813-559-5543. I work with Bradley, Aaron Bolt Cummings and they are a big proponent of helping out with the ala you can also reach me through email, which would be T. Tennyson.

So my first name Tracy T Tennyson T E N N Y S O N at Bradley B R A d l e y.com I am happy to get you signed up. Answer any questions that you have, figure out what is the best area that works for you. We have a lot of different categories that work for our business partners and you know we want to make sure that you get the most bang for your buck and then for members just come on join us.

We are excited to have you. Our Suncoast Suncoast chapter I guess the actual cost is only $100 per year right now. Oh that’s one so so cheap.

We have monthly meetings so every month there is something going on rather it be It Mollyo’s downtown season’s 52 in West Shore Brio at International Mall we’re looking for some opportunities over in Pinellas over the bridge to make it a little bit easier for some people that are over the bridge. But you know we have a lot of also Zoom opportunities. So if you can’t make it you can join through Zoom but to just further educate you and make sure that you can present your questions about what you
want to learn about.

Because we all have different needs and wants based on small medium large firms and sometimes we all have different responsibilities of what we can even handle. But we take all of that into account and try to make sure we strategically plan our sessions based on your needs and what is going to further benefit you and your law firm. It’s time to stop thinking about your website like a car.

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It’s interesting you bring that up like the questions that someone had asked the needs. You know, in speaking with some of my clients about the ALA and coming in as members, I’ve brought a prospective member in before as a guest. I found that sometimes they don’t know how to phrase their needs.

In a question, like they know they need something or they’re struggling with something, but they don’t really know how to, you know, ask the question to get the answer they’re really looking for. You know, for instance, I know one small firm administrator that said that early on they came into legal administration from another industry. So they didn’t go through law school.

You know, no JD and none of that. No previous experience. They came from, I think it was hospitality.

But they said that early on they struggled a lot with trust accounting. They found it was really stressful. There was no room for error.

Any potential error could just blow up for them. And they really wish that there was more resources for somebody like them. Starting out around trust accounting, how would, what advice would you give that person if they were like a new member coming in and they’re like, you know, I’m really struggling with trust accounting.

How could they find support in the LA Suncoast? So many different avenues. I would say, you know, one is just, just coming to an event. Ask some of us.

There are so many experienced administrators there that can give you that feedback. We also have a CLE program, I shouldn’t say cla, clm, where you can become a certified legal manager. And we highly promote that.

We have study groups where we try to give everybody the knowledge for all of that. So the training is very important. I think just again, talking to other admins about it, they can give you so, so much.

That’s where I learned so much about trust accounting. I started with a large firm, went to a smaller firm and had to learn trust accounting kind of on my own. And so really depended on the ALA to help me with that.

Got it. So you probably felt some of that same stress. Definitely, definitely felt that stress.

Trust accounting is difficult, it’s hard, it is worrisome, it is not easy. You can screw up something very large that costs your fir a lot of money and you don’t want to do that. Right.

So, you know, I think our CLE training, it, it covers a lot of that. But I think that, you know, you have to also have a program in place for your firm which, whether you’re small or large, we can help with that. So a lot of large firms already have it.

Small firms need it. You have to have stop gaps. Make sure that there is a lot of overview in that.

Make sure there are multiple people involved overviewing, you know, what is going on with your trust account and, you know, wires that are going out. You can never have someone writing the checks that is also sending the wires and reconciling them always have separate people involved so that there’s a checks and balance there. So there’s.

There’s a lot of ways to protect that. I think part of the problem probably, too, is attorneys sometimes will dictate how they want that to go. Right.

So depending on how big your firm is. So I’m in a larger firm right now. They don’t dictate that so much because there are a lot of processes and procedures to make sure that this does not get screwed up.

But sometimes in a smaller firm, and you’re just getting in and you’re just learning, and you don’t know a lot about trust accounting. Ultimately, you know, it’s the attorney’s license on the line. However, it’s our job to protect them, and we have to safeguard that.

We have to let them know these are the rules we’ve implemented. This is what you have to follow. You know, they have to respect that role and understand that, you know, your role in this procedure, and if they have questions, explain it to them.

You know, we. We can even help provide any kind of paperwork and documentation to help with that. But.

But definitely doing your own research and taking a little bit of time helps out a lot with trust accounting. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. It’s. It’s such a hard subject because it’s, like you said, it’s so easy for a mistake to be made, and then it has such high impact.

You know, someone’s life could be on the line, definitely, or lose a ton of money. So you never want to do that. Indeed.

Indeed. Another person I was speaking with recently, you know, I was. I was talking to them about, you know, what kind of question would you ask if you were sitting in the seat interviewing the wonderful Tracy Tennyson from Bradley.

Oh, thank you. And they, again, couldn’t really get to a question. They said, you know, something I struggle with is getting attorneys in my practice to work together.

I just had this attorney that, you know, after they left, come to find out they didn’t really file anything, which I could have done. You know, I was like, oh, my God, I’ve been there a million times. Attorney doesn’t file.

You know, and so you’re like, digging through a mailbox, trying to find some attachment to an email when it should be in the system. But, you know, what advice would you give, like a managing attorney of a small firm as far as how to get the practice, like, on board with a framework or a way of working together and collaborating? Okay, so an attorney with a Small firm. I think communication is key.

I think communication is key for everything. I say that in every realm of, you know, the law firm management system. But I do think that communication is key.

Weekly meetings are important sometimes to discuss these issues. Now, it depends on the practice group, right? So you might have, say, for instance, an insurance defense practice group that might be able to meet more frequently and talk about these things and know exactly what’s happening. You might have different practice groups in litigation or, you know, any kind of commercial or just various areas that are not going to have that availability to be able to do that.

I think getting your associates organized, working together, collaborating is very important. One thing, and I’ll pivot for just a moment, I think, is, you know, remote work is very hard right now. And so ever since COVID even though nobody wants to talk about COVID anymore, it’s sort of, you know, been years and everybody’s back to work in some ways, or a hybrid situation, it has still impacted things quite a bit because attorneys are able to work from home a lot.

They have billable hour requirements. They can get their billable hours done, but they are missing the collaboration with partners. And, you know, sometimes partners aren’t in.

So, you know, that makes that hard too. So it’s all a little give and take on both sides. However, they need that collaboration.

They need those skills. Nobody can just kind of go from law school and be a rock star. You have to learn from somebody at some point.

And so I think that collaboration is really key. I also think auditing the work is important. So it depends on, again, what kind of practice group you have going on and how difficult it is to audit what kind of programs you’ve implemented that can do that for you.

Because sometimes it can be very costly. If you have a person doing it versus a program, sometimes a program can be very costly. But I think that if there’s ever any concern, audit the work.

Always audit the work. Typically, notice is going to be given if somebody’s going to be leaving. So I think in that sort of case, you can implement a departing attorney checklist with safeguards.

So that is what we do right now. That’s what I’ve done with several other firms. It is a long list of items, but if you are giving your notice, here are the things that we expect from you to do.

We want everything saved in the system. You know, I mean, even down to naming conventions sometimes of how things can be found when your predecessor comes and needs to be able to find these documents. Sometimes if no notice is Given.

Okay, not so good. But, you know, there should be some sort of a handbook policy about that. Right.

Where would then we implement that? And we do make sure that anything that was billed for is actually done in the system. I have seen cases like you mentioned where there have been attorneys that have billed for work and have then left and the work is not done. It’s not in the system.

The client has been charged. Now you have a new attorney needing to do the work. It just looks messy.

It doesn’t look good on the managing partners or myself when something like that is missed. So I think anything you can do to safeguard against that is great. Yeah, I’ve seen when you say that.

It just made me remember a story of a team that were. They basically were working out of like a PST export of an attorney’s mailbox that was saved on a network drive. And it was like, you know, four or five different people working out of this mailbox just because that attorney had left and they didn’t file anything and they didn’t have the time to go through and file everything.

So they’re like, well, let’s just share the mailbox data. And it was just a mess. We spent so much time rebuilding and restoring that PST because lo and behold, it would get corrupted.

But, yeah, sometimes I think this is tough for even in practice groups, certain attorneys, certain personalities, they want to work the way they want to work, and then everybody else kind of has to work around their bad habits. True. So true.

And that is hard. And that’s something we’ll never probably be able to change. I mean, realistically, like, I mean, you intro me, but I’ve been doing this for, I don’t even want to say how long.

You know, probably close to 30 almost years. And it has not changed since then. So, you know, people have their own inherent ways of doing things, and that’s how it’s going to be.

And they will leave it messy and it is left for someone else to clean it up, who then is not happy and needs to clean it up. But it has to be done so that we can continue on effectively and efficiently. And so I think, again, safeguarding, having that checklist, making someone responsible and saying, look, this is your responsibility to do this and get this out and, you know, whatever that means.

I don’t want to threaten, but I mean, money talks, right? So maybe you hold some comp up against him or you say, look, this is where at the end of this, you know, we’re going to withhold this, or you’re not going to get maybe the separation pay or whatever it is that was promised to you because we need to make sure we can continue functioning without now having to pay someone else extra time to go back and do the work that you did not do. Gosh, that’s wonderful. See, audience, if you want advice
like this when you’re facing tough questions in your practice, come join us at ALA Suncoast.

Please do. Well, this has been a great conversation before we end today. I love stories.

I love collecting stories. And if you would be so generous to share some stories or a story with us, what’s something you never thought you would have to deal with in this job? Okay. I love sharing stories.

So thanks for the question. You know, I think there’s a few things that come to mind instantly, but we’ve had a various amount throughout the years of just construction mishaps that I thought might not happen. So pipes bursting, moves that have required extermination of pests that have come in because of the move and cardboard or open walls and things like that.

So luckily my husband is in that business. I can ask him a lot of questions about those things. And then I look like a rock star when I go back to work.

And I know what I’m talking, even though I really don’t. But I’ve been able to help out a lot in those ways. But I think, you know, I mean, I will tell you one, just a quick one about spiders.

In one office, we had opened a new office and they had these wolf spiders. Oh, gosh. And they were awful.

I don’t like spiders. I’ve never been afraid of spiders. I’ve always been kind of cool with spiders.

I don’t like snakes. However, this wolf spider jumped into my hair while I tried to get it out of my office. And they were pretty prevalent at the time because it was a new build in the area.

This was a office in Odessa. And once it jumped in my hair, I have never been the same. So now I cannot even, I can’t even smash the smallest little spider.

I, you know, I, I have to get somebody to come and help me. Thank God I have a daughter now who’s larger than me and she is all about helping. She usually scoops him up and takes him outside because she’s.

Oh, that’s brave. I couldn’t do that. Yeah, me either.

So. So that’s been interesting. A couple other things I guess that I’ve thought about.

You know, those are kind of normal almost. Those happen. It’s almost.

You have to Expect as an administrator, something that could happen at your office that could also happen at your home. Right. Because this is an office that is being built out.

It can happen. Yeah. When you say pipes purse, that’s the first thing to think.

Like, oh my gosh, all the people I’ve known that have dealt with that in their home, but so few like in the office. But I guess that falls to you, right. If it happens in the office.

Definitely, definitely. We have to figure out the remediation of how to fix the office, how to keep all of these attorneys and staff happy when all of their things have been ruined and their files are ruined and we have to now, you know, replicate files and duplicate different items that they’ve had. I mean, I’ve had people’s, you know, diplomas ruined that we’ve had to redo, which is unfortunate.

So those have been very big issues, but I think all kind of normalish, if we can say, I mean, crap happens. Right, Right. This is, this is what happens in, in real life, you know, other things, I guess that I can think of a couple other ones that are kind of off the cuff would be one good one, one bad ones.

Right. So here I’ll give you a couple examples. So we had one unfortunate separation where I had a death threat, never thought that would happen, but had a legal assistant who we had a separation with, who was not performing.

And we had had several conversations, a performance improvement plan, all of that. HR involved, myself involved, and at the end of it, unfortunately, a separation. However, I was told to watch my back, don’t close my eyes, and this person would show up at my house that night.

And so I was a little paranoid. I had all my blinds down that night. I did not call the police, which is probably not smart, but I looked out for myself and had family members looking out for me.

Everything was fine. But, you know, that was something that. Right.

I never really expected, but in this role, you know, kind of. You and I have had this conversation before with our president is, you know, you’re kind of on an island in this role sometimes. And so you can’t trust a lot of people.

And unfortunately, you know, you’re supervising a lot of people and you have to make sure you put your best foot forward. Always and always try to handle situations amicably in the most efficient way that you can and the most fair way that you can. And not everybody sees it that way.

And so sometimes your number one enemy, unfortunately, so always safeguarding yourself and making sure that that’s okay. And then the Other one, which is a little more fun, is we sometimes have food eating competitions, which my managing partners never like. HR never likes.

They always balk at me about it, but they always approve it for me and. And go ahead and let me do it. But typically, you know, it’s not like your hot dog eating competition.

It is hot pepper eating competition. Hot pepper. Oh, that sounds way more.

I was imagining hot dog eating, but hot pepper, no. And the hot dog eating, so gross. People like wetting the hot dog buns and all that.

I just can’t. That’s gonna make me nauseous. What’s the hottest pepper you’ve.

You’ve been into? So we went up to a ghost chili pepper one time, which is the one that my office managing partner said, you cannot do this. I am going to cut you off. You’re too important to the firm.

Well, I wasn’t gonna need it. There’s no way I would. But he was like, how are you allowing other people to do this? And I said, well, you know, I mean, we’ll give PTO time.

We’ll make sure everything. We have waivers. We are attorneys, right? I mean, we’ll sign waivers.

We’ll make sure nobody is hurt. We have milk. We have all the things.

But typically it was more lower level pepper, so it would increase from a jalapeno all the way up to that. But we had a amazing competition at one of my firms, and it was mainly attorneys that competed. And as you know, most attorneys are a little competitive, so it was great.

We had a phenomenal time and raised a lot of money for charity, and everybody talked about it for years and years to come. Had trophies that they put in their office. They were so proud, got to brag about.

So, you know, some. Some bad, some good, but all different challenges, you know, not from the norm of what you think of every day with accounting, hr, and all of the typical realm that we handle. We also have a lot of fun sometimes and.

And sometimes not so much fun, but we figure out how to deal with it. Gosh, this is fun. That is fun.

Now I want to. I want to eat some hot peppers. So I’m trying to think maybe we could get all of the business partners together for a hot pepper.

Can we do it? Hot pepper challenge. How hot of a pepper are you down for? And you know what we should do is business partners first, members. You know, I like it.

Make it competitive. I like it. I get to be the scorekeeper.

I’m not eating the peppers. You’re not going to eat the Peppers all about helping out however I can. I’ll plan it.

I’ll keep track of it all. I just want to. I just want to out Pepper Paul if I can out Pepper Paul.

I’ll feel like a winner. There you go. This has been great.

Thank you so much for joining us in studio today. Thank you so much, Ryan. This has been phenomenal.

I really appreciate the invite and so great to be able to talk with you more about our business partners, our ala, myself and just this role. Yeah, this has been great. Hopefully we’ll do it again one day.

Let’s do it. Tracy gave her information earlier if you’d like to reach out to her. If you’re interested in membership in ALA Suncoast, I highly recommend it or the expo we have at the end of this month, that is on Tuesday the 27th at 5pm at the Hilton.

Join me next month. Brian Bankston of CIO Legal. I will have Nicholas Pollock of TIA International Airport or Tampa International Airport here talking about insider hacks for how to get promoted in it, which should be a good one.

He is the president of HDI Skyway and also leads a good section of the IT department at Tampa International Airport. So looking forward to that. And then of course, join us here every week for other sunleader hosts and their wonderful podcast.

I hope you have a great day. Thank you so much. Thank you.