So I found this Yahoo Finance article the other week and the title said Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Robert Kiyosaki asks who’s right? He is a billionaire 1.2 billion in debt But Dave Ramsey says live debt free.

The article stemming from Kiyosaki recently reposting a short from a couple years back. Kiyosaki’s insights stir a compelling discussion on financial strategies. Who is right? My friend Dave Ramsey says live debt free.

I say I use debt I’m 1.2 billion in debt. Offering a bold entrance into the dialogue on debt management and financial freedom, Kiyosaki’s argument unfolds with a reflection on the wisdom behind Ramsey’s advice versus his own.

Acknowledging the validity of living debt free for the majority, he said. For most people with low financial acumen, Dave’s advice is the smarter advice. Yet he counters this by highlighting the potential benefits of debt as an investment tool for those well versed in financial matters.

For the financially educated and experienced, my advice may be better, kiyosaki said, suggesting a tailored approach to financial decision making on individual knowledge and experience levels. The article later references Kiyosaki bantering Ramsey says live debt free. Well, you’re an idiot.

I mean, he’s my friend, but I say, Dave, I like debt, indicating a preference for debt as a vehicle for financial advancement. Despite his bold stance, Ramsey concedes, I know, but most people can’t handle debt. I’m super excited to explore this concept and more with my guests today, and this segment of the Some Leaders podcast presents Invest in you Episode two.

I’m your host Dena Glasgow, and I believe there’s not one way to success. We simply have to find your way to success. I want the discussion of money, financial literacy, and the creation of generational wealth to be less taboo for people to understand that they don’t need millions or even thousands to make their way to financial freedom, as well as to offer insight to listeners and opportunities that are out there for them to take action to find their version of success and path to wealth.

I want to help people break down the barrier walls they use as a defense mechanism when asked to talk about their finances. They say it takes a village to raise a child, so why go solo with your finances today? I’m excited. My guests today are Ms. Sexy, Lexi, Robert Bates, and Mr. Ed Chester.

Thank you guys so much for being here. Appreciate you guys. My pleasure.

Wanted to start with just a quick intro, so why don’t Alexis tell us a little bit about, you know, where you’re at in your journey of life here, just this brief synopsis of like your a career. And I know you got some fantastic things coming up, so love to hear. Yeah.

Well, first, thanks for, thanks for asking me to be a part of this. Despite my lack of financial knowledge, I am an organizational change management consultant by day. That’s my corporate position.

I’m also a Jay Shetty certified life coach specializing in courage. And so that is more of my kind of passion, my purpose and an additional way for me to give back. I love helping people just grow and adapt and face fears and limiting beliefs, which it’s sort of ironic that my day job is all about change and helping people adjust to change.

But as many of us know, you really can’t get by on one stream of income anymore. So I feel like for years I’ve always been looking for what are other ways that I can do it but not feel slimy about making money. Something that is a way for me to give back and adjust.

But as you mentioned, Dena so recently married to the love of my life, Sean, and we are going to be moving halfway across country soon from, from Florida to Texas and literally in the process right now of I was just approved for the house and hours before we would be making an offer, somebody else made an offer. So that’s literally where I’m at right in this moment. But I have talked about my finances more in the last several weeks than I felt comfortable with because I do have debts to student
loans and things of the like.

So I’m really excited to not only learn from both you and Ed in this, but just for this to not be so taboo because I don’t feel like I got much financial education growing up and I’ve just been like learning by mistakes. And so I’m excited for this. I love it.

I’m really excited to chat with you more about it and give you guys just a little insight on why I even wanted to, you know, have my first guests as you guys here in just another minute. But we’re going to shift on over to Mr. Ed Chester. Ed, tell us a little bit about you.

Mr. Well, I’m personal trainer is my profession as of right now and due to some advice from Alexis, I just got into the life coaching realm. And similar to Alexis, I will, will be focusing on self confidence and like you said, the courage to, to take on new things because that’s something I deal with. I overcome a lot.

So I want to help others do the same thing. And congratulations on you, on your marriage. This week we celebrated my 20th anniversary with my wife.

She still loves me for some reason. I don’t know why, but similar to Alexis, I’m looking forward to learning as well. Because we did not discuss finances in my house growing up.

Mom and dad took care of it. We didn’t know anything. So Lord knows, when I got that first credit card in college, that was a hot mess, right? Isn’t it? Oh, gosh, yeah.

Help me through some stuff there. I’m just now getting back to where I feel comfortable using one. Geez, 20 years later.

So it’s. It. It is been a challenge and I think a lot of people need to know more about finances, and this is a great way to teach to them.

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

There’s a lot to love about you, Ed, so no doubt that’s why you got that 20, 20 year record going strong. And Alexis, you know, we love Sean so much. He’s a great guy.

I’m super happy for you guys and like I said, excited to see where your journey takes you. Sad to see you leave our vicinity, but forever close to us. And we’re going to be talking all the time anyway.

So the reason that I wanted to really start with you guys is, you know, as you both already know, whether it is in. In your health or. Or in your trajectory, your journey in life, you know, it all starts with mindset, right? You know, every course that I’ve ever taken, every conference you ever go to, you know, they always start with mindset.

And so I wanted to start with you guys. You know, I really value what you do for not just myself. I mean, you’re both so valuable in my life.

I can’t thank you enough. But what you do for other people is phenomenal. You know, I. I am huge advocate for both of you, and so I wanted to talk to you a little bit more.

And really, this whole podcast journey for myself, this whole invest in you journey in general is a testimony to health, wealth, and mindset. And so it really all works and plays in together. So that’s where I wanted to jump in.

So kind of revisiting back to my initial article that I was referencing in the beginning there. Are you guys familiar with who Robert Kiyosaki and Dave Ramsey are? So you. Yes.

Do you have. Okay, great. This is audio recorded, just so you know, so people aren’t going to see.

Not so. So you both said yes, familiar with them. Awesome, awesome.

And you know, what they were talking about in relation to, you know, the discussion of debt versus living, you know, debt free. Where do you guys stand on it first, please. Go ahead.

Go ahead, Alexis. Technology. Okay.

So for me, I feel like I constantly have this internal battle of living in the moment, being present, doing what you want to do, that fulfills your soul, that fulfills your purpose in life. For me, one of those things is travel. Travel is hella expensive, but I. I’m called to travel and experience new cultures and new food and meet new people and see old architecture, and yet my bank account can’t really support that past a certain level, right? So it’s like, how much debt am I actually willing to
accumulate to stay fulfilled? And then there’s the other side of, no, be responsible.

Save, save. You’re gonna have to retire one day. You.

You need to be mindful and conservative. I have felt this internal pull of, how do you do both? I. I honestly don’t. Sometimes I look at people and I’m like, how are they doing all of these amazing things and yet paying their bills and.

And. And saving towards the future? So I personally have more debt than I would like. Part of that is due to student loans.

I don’t want to say that I regret taking that path, but I do a little bit because I owe a lot and I technically am using my degree, but I don’t need it. So I think that honestly, some debt I’m okay with because to me, it signifies a little bit of living. And in today’s world, I don’t know how you’re living with no debt.

It’s just. It’s too expensive to even. Just normal bills now, so.

Especially in Florida. So I’m personally okay with a certain amount of debt. However, I also am a firm believer in learning from mistakes.

So there are times where I will spend more frivolously than I wanted to, and then I’ll look back and I’ll be like, okay, that was kind of a waste of money. I didn’t need to do that. Next time I’m in that situation, I’m going to, like, stop, Challenge, choose, You know, like, stop, take a breather.

Do I really need this? Does this support my future goals? Or. Or is this just a want that I don’t really need right now? So I have learned a lot from those things. I still make some of those mistakes.

I’m just saying I’m going to own that. But I’m okay with a certain amount of debt. I think one of the big things I kept hearing was like, you know, 30% kind of debt to income ratio.

I feel like that kept getting thrown in My face a lot recently when you’re talking about houses, I think that would be pretty comfortable for me, but I am not quite there yet. I would love to be in that space where I feel like it’s. It’s debt that is also building me something right now.

It’s just weighing me down. So I think that that’s one of the big distinctions too, of like, and I love your. Your entire mission and brand of invest in you.

I think that that is so cool because it literally speaks to everything and last little tangent and then, Ed, I want to hear what you think, but I think it’s also critical to keep reminding people that finances, health and mindset are literally all tied together. Because think of how stressed you get when you’re worried about finances. How am I going to pay that bill? Are we going to be able to eat next week? You know, what about the dog needing these vaccines, all of these different things that
literally breaks down your body, the stress, and it can lead to massive health restrictions or, I mean, illnesses, disease, like all of that.

So if you are not able to mindset yourself in a good way and you’re not managing your finances well, it’s all going to trickle into every other aspect of your life. So, Ed, I’m excited to hear what Ed has to say. Now, honestly, you know, you and I are pretty close to what we want in life.

I like you, I want to experience other cultures, love to travel, love to cruise, want to fish, all throughout the world. But once again, the bank account doesn’t. Doesn’t allow that to happen right now.

And I am not very comfortable with debt. But due large part by this. I’ve read the rich dad, Poor dad, as well as talking to Dana.

I do understand that debt can be helpful, but I don’t like it. I’ll be honest. It’s uncomfortable now.

He stresses a lot of people out, you know, and I understand. It’s. It’s really your tolerance for risk is what it comes down to.

Right. And I love that you both bring up travel. You know, I. I’m the same way.

It. It baffles me when I hear people haven’t traveled or really don’t have the desire to travel. So I’m right there with you, you know, and I’m really excited that you bring it up because one of the, the, you know, episodes that I am planning down the road, I want to be focusing on that.

You know, I ran across a couple different people that are focused on trying to have. Be responsibly traveling, you know, What I mean, how to, how to travel first class on a, on a, you know, minimal budget, you know, more or less kind of thing. So.

And utilizing strategizing how to leverage your debt and points that you build on credit cards and things to make that happen. So, you know, stay tuned on later episodes and we’ll chat on that as well. But super cool.

I. This is exactly why I wanted to talk to you guys because, you know, when it comes down to it, I don’t want the podcast to be so out of reach for people. I want it to hit home that these are the experiences that everyone has and make it very relatable and to open everyone’s eyes that it is possible to overcome these fears, take yourself to the next level and get to that place of being able to travel all the time and not have the stress of it and, and set yourself up financially. You know, the,
the burden of debt, student loan debt, like you were saying, you know what I mean? Like credit card debt, it’s real, especially student loans here.

It’s astronomical, right? And it, it looms. I mean, you know, mortgage lending, I see it every day, all day. And you know, a lot of people when it comes to student loan debt and looking to get a house, you know, talk about, well, I’m not paying anything or I’m on an income based repayment plan, but you owe $100,000 in total student loan debt.

You know, you might only be paying $30 right now, but at some point it will start to balloon up a bit and you will have to repay that. So a payment in lots of cases has to be calculated into your other debts to assume at some point you will be responsible to pay that back. You know, and there’s situations, of course, that, you know, that doesn’t apply necessarily or doesn’t hit you quite so hard, but that’s a discussion for another day, you know, but I totally understand and, and can.

Can gather that up as well in myself. You know, there’s a level of stress that money provides to everybody. And the goal of these discussions is really to help people see past that, to acknowledge.

And you said a really great thing, Lexi. The, you said it was basically like the Marie Kander, like, almost bring me. Does this bring me joy? But what was the thing then? You, you said you.

Does it support my goals? And does it. Is it a part of my purpose? Does it kind of support my purpose and fill my soul? I think is what I was saying. Yeah, it was like this, this evaluation of what is important.

How is this going to fulfill the next step that I’m trying to get to. And does this make sense? You know what I mean? It’s really just about responsibility. And in the article, you know, they were saying that it’s really a.

They were almost alluding to, or at least Kiyosaki in his. Is in his comment alluding to, well, you just got to be smart. If you’re smart enough, you can do it.

And I really don’t think that it’s a level of smartness. It’s a level of risk tolerance, It’s a level of, of understanding and providing, finding yourself the education. It’s not like something that’s ingrained in you already.

You have to be willing to take the initiative to find the answers, you know, and a lot of people just don’t. Is how I feel about it. Well, to that point, you know, I mean, that’s kind of what I think you’re doing with this podcast, is making it accessible to the masses in a non intimidating way.

And I love that because like, personally I would listen to something like this. I would listen to you like to learn because right, like it can be really dry, right Ed, like some of these other. You’re just like, they’re monotone voices just droning on about stuff that doesn’t make sense.

And I, I agree. It’s not like an intelligence smart. It’s the evaluation and the kind of risk, risk evaluation, I think you were saying.

And I just real quickly I kept thinking about this too, while you were talking and thinking, I would have loved to have this even when I was younger and really trying to start out in the world to learn. Maybe it would have saved me from some mistakes because I have a distinct memory of when I was like, give or take 10 years old. I was with my dad and we stopped at an ATM and I was like, oh, dad, how much did you take out? And his response to me, and I love my dad, he’s probably, he’s not going to
listen to this.

Sorry, but he just won’t. He doesn’t even listen to my podcast though. But he, his response to me was, well, that’s none of your business, it doesn’t matter.

And I was like, whoa, dude. Like, I don’t even have a concept of money. You could have said $5, not have been like, whoa, we are rich, go get ice cream.

You know, I’m 10. But the fact that that was kind of their response and my parents, like, like you said, Ed, it was like my parents just paid bills. We didn’t really know what was going on.

Sometimes I saw my mom stress about money and whatever, but yet somehow we still went on vacations and then, you know, so it’s. It’s amazing to think that this, this is now going to exist to help people avoid some of that uncomfortableness because it’s more accessible and it just makes sense and speaks to you easier than some financial report that you’re trying to read the article and have no idea what it’s saying. Right.

Well, thank you for that. And that’s definitely what I’m going for. So you bring up a good question.

And one of the questions that I had kind of written down here was, if you had a time machine and you can go back in time, what is one bit of financial advice you would give to your younger self and how far back in time would you go to give that advice? Oh, I’m talking about the moment I can understand anything. I’m going back to saying, don’t touch the credit card, don’t touch the credit card and don’t touch investments. Those are the two things is let it ride that I tell myself, oh, man.

Yeah, that’s. You talk about risk and your mindset. When we had the housing market crash back, was it 08 or whatever it was, I had investments from an insurance policy I had.

And unfortunately, because of my stress over having debt, I used a lot of it to pay off stuff. Not being able to withstand that. That stress over debt and understand that it’s going to come back up.

But use your investments, they’re not going to come back up because now you spent them. That’s one thing that I would definitely. Because that was also when the credit card popped out, too.

I would definitely go back in time and be like, hey, don’t touch any. Don’t touch your credit card and don’t touch your investments. Once you get them, let them, Let them grow.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, one way.

I mean, sure. On that same note, though, it’s like, not to play devil’s advocate here, but would you have the same respect for the risk aversion or aversion now for credit cards if you had learned it in that way, then it’s like a wonder. I wonder.

And I really, I almost would have probably been on the Dave Ramsey team of no debt if I had never touched a credit card. So I. That’s the way I was running. And I would say now, but like you said, now I do have the understanding of it to where, hey, you know, it’s not free money.

Like, you got to Pay that stuff back. So, yes, I still would rather not go through that. But, yes, I definitely have learned because of, like you said, you learn through your experiences and your failures.

That’s how you learn. And I definitely learned. Right, Right.

Okay, I’m going to. I’m. I’m going to take a note here that I’ll bring up, but I want to hear what your thoughts are on the same question there.

So if you had a time machine could go back, what’s one bit of financial advice you’d give to your younger self? And how far back in time would you go to give that advice? It’s hard to pinpoint a specific time. Like, I’m thinking of little areas where I spent more money here or there. Okay, wait, no.

So I, I would go back to right after my mom passed. So I was 19 when she passed. And the life insurance policy that was given to us, like, after taxes and things I would have invested, that would have been amazing.

But in my grief, and it’s no one else’s responsibility to kind of guide me, but I do wish that somebody might have stepped in and been like, hey, shopping sprees are great, but maybe, you know, corral a little of this or don’t lend to this family member. That would probably be my big thing. Like, don’t just spend so frivolously.

And I mean, it lasted me for a little while, but it could have gone and should have gone much, much further. And so. But I didn’t know anything about investing.

I didn’t know about IRAs or any of that. Like, I had a checking account, savings account, and a debit card. That was it.

So old were you. How old were you then? I would have been by that point, probably 20, 19 to 20. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, so I didn’t know anything like, none of that. I didn’t even know how to balance a checkbook when my mom passed.

Like, that was just not something that was taught to me. So I literally had to learn it. And then one of the ways, because I had no credit for the longest time, because I would always just use my debit card and I had no assets or, you know, anything like that.

So I had to teach myself, like, oh, to build your credit, you do need credit cards, but you need to pay them off or pay them way down, keep the utilization rate down. But I didn’t know that. So for a long time, I was in the scary realm of, of what you’ve described, Ed, where it was like, maxed out or almost maxed out and not sure.

How to pay it. But it was like once you start to kind of play the game a little bit, but then they start raising your, your credit limit and then you’re like, oh, gosh, okay, now we start all over again. This is great.

But yet careful. Right? So that’s. I would go back to then and you know, encourage investment and just stopping to evaluate more of where, where I spent it, who I lent it to, things like that.

It’s the whole opportunity when you get that first credit card or you get that lump sum payout, you know, especially when it’s never been given to you before. You’re. It’s like this dopamine shot to your brain that you’re like, what? Yes, yeah, do this.

You know, what can we do now that we couldn’t do before? But yeah, I mean, I think, I think that the percentage of people that get any kind of financial literacy education as children is probably so minuscule. I would love to see any kind of research on that. Because out of this country alone, I mean, not just the entirety of the world, but just this country alone, if, if we are the, you know, the, the most wealthy or one of the most wealthy countries in the world, how much of our society truly
has any kind of financial literacy at, by the age of 18 especially, or 20, you know what I mean? To the point is probably less than half a percent.

I mean, I would say it’s probably atrocious, you know, which is very sad. And we really do need to educate. And it, like you said with your dad saying like none of your business, you know, that that was a lot of how I was raised too, not to say that.

It was just not. It’s taboo. You just don’t ask those questions, you know what I mean? Like that because people don’t want to release their, whatever that may be, their financial missteps or they don’t want.

Maybe they do have a lot of money. They don’t want people knowing that. And then everybody’s asking for a handout.

Like there’s all these different thoughts that roll around in everybody’s brain, you know, so when it comes to the, the conversation of credit card debt, you know, and making those big spends and having that like aversion to. There’s either you spend it all or you spend it none, you know, there is definitely something to be said there. You know, when, when do you think it’s ever started to be or if it has ever.

Or when did it become on your radar to have. Okay, I’m going to spend this much on the credit card, I’m going to limit myself not to the maximum, but to a certain limit. When do you think that that started for you guys? Just in life in general, A couple of years ago.

Getting that, getting a secure credit card, it was a good stepping stone for us and you know, to understand you can use it and not max it out, pay it off and use it instead of your debit card. And then now we have the other two credit cards that we do that with now and starting to enjoy the benefits of the rewards and stuff like that. But, you know, with the exception of one recent large purchase that we had to make on it, we were keeping them probably around 10 to 15%.

L is where we’re keeping them. And we’ll get them down to being 5% under. Here is a goal.

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I look forward to the day that mine will be 5%. Yeah, so I actually have, I have several credit cards now and a few of them are at zero. And I only use them, you know, a couple times a year just so that they stay open.

And I have multiple lines of credit. I have a few that I use pretty regularly as far as like, I’ll, I’ll use them, pay them down, use them, pay them down because they have all the, the cool rewards, the miles and things like that, which is another thing that, like, I think helped start to open my eyes a little bit as far as using your debt in your, you know, to your advantage. Um, so I think I’m.

I’m trying to think back because I. The first credit card that I had was like a Capital One Platinum, which I think it’s Quicksilver now or something. And I remember it was like a $500 limit. And I thought that that was badass.

Like, I was like, oh man, I am, I am living now. And it would get, yeah, it would just pinball, you know, it was mostly maxed out, but then I would just barely bring it down. And I, I don’t know if I think it was right after I got my first, like, corporate job, my full time job after graduating college, that was all through college and I was able to actually start paying it down and then paying it off.

And I think my credit score went up and I was like, okay, that makes sense, right? But then I don’t know if I saw an article or, or what, but it literally was just like one day it clicked for me of if I stop using my debit card all the time, because that’s what I would live off, pay my bills off of it and everything and started using the credit cards to actually like put something on it and then pay it down at least as much as I possibly could. So like at least 50% down or something. But the goal
was to pay it off then that would help build my credit because I think I kept getting denied, like for other cards even when I had a low balance.

And I was like, well, how am I supposed to build credit? You know? Like, I, I can’t buy a house or anything right now to like build. I had no idea how to build credit credit, right? And it just all of a sudden clicked for me of stop using your debit card all the time and just wisely use your credit card, right? And so then it like that credit card, I think in the time span of maybe a year and a half to two years of living that way, where I would just utilize it as much as I needed to try and keep
it low and then pay it way down or off. It was like a year and a half or two years later, plus my income went up, but that credit card went from 500 to 1500 availability.

And I was like, and y’, all, it was literally like, two weeks before Christmas. So I, like, I couldn’t buy presents for people at the time. And then all of a sudden, I, like, logged into my account to check the balance or something, and it was like, oh, you have this amount of money? And I was like, what? I’d never seen that before.

So that was really when I learned, like, okay, this is the way to play the game. But you do have to be extremely careful. I mean, my husband, for example, Ed, the way that you talk about your story is exactly how his story was.

And he did not have a credit card for years. He lived cash only for many years because he. He had racked up credit card debt.

He paid it all off thankfully, but he was so afraid of even getting a card. So then when we got together and we knew, okay, this is it. We’re going to get married and all this, I started, like, putting him on a couple of the credit cards to start building.

And now his credit’s better than mine, mind you, because I have all the debt from student loans and stuff. But I just. It’s so common that that’s the case.

And it’s like, I’m very thankful that I didn’t get to that point, but I. I was literally, like, one step away from getting to that point. That one credit card that I had was so, like, yeah, I don’t know how they didn’t shut it off or take it away or whatever, but can, yeah, awesome for that. It sounds like you were able to, you know, recognize something or maybe saw that article that might have helped you.

Is that the same thing for you, Ed? When was it that you kind of, like, were like, okay, well, we’re going to start keeping a. Or trying to target a lower balance for it. Was there a trigger moment you hit that max, or did you come across something? Where was the education there? Well, the funny thing is, you know, we talk about mindset, the mindset I can do this, having confidence in myself to.

To take charge of my finances. And it was, geez, we’ve been in this house for two years, and then we’re looking at getting a new vehicle. And it was one of those, like, where our credit suitors there.

It’s like, you know, why is my credit bag? And we started to work on just learning about, you know, how our credit and stuff is. And then eventually it was, hey, I’m. I’m growing up.

I need to be an adult. I can. I can do this.

And stepping out there and taking those baby steps to build my confidence again about about doing it. So for me, it was just more or less, you know, seeing where our credit score was, trying to get the vehicle and, you know, basically, you know, trying to be an adult, taking that, taking that step and being confident that I’m smart enough to handle this. Right, right.

So for really all of us, it was pretty much self motivated. Like we found that in ourselves. Because I know for myself, I no different from anybody else once I got to college and I got that first Capital one card because it seems like everybody’s first card is Capital One.

God bless them for doing it, you know. Right. Thank you.

If they could offer tutoring or something when they do it, you know what I mean? Like, that might be smart because I got that and I had that $500 limit, same thing. I was like, oh, I got $500. Right, right.

You know, and so I racked that thing right on up, you know, and I did like, paid it down, paid it off. I do remember thinking responsibly, like, I got to do this. But it was never an in between.

It would be like either I paid it off and I’d sit, let it sit, and I’d be like, oh, I’m doing so good. It’s sitting with a zero balance and I’m using my debit card and. Or I would max it out.

Like there was no in between. And then when the housing market crash hit for me was when I was in between, like I, I was trying to leave construction and get into, into real estate sales and had been a realtor for a little while. And then that was not like working.

And so I had to live off credit cards and I was in a bad way. You know, there was no construction work really at all. Everything kind of stopped at that point.

And my construction, my credit cards just went up and up and up, up. And I was like, oh my God. And so no one told me how to manage it just like everybody else, you know.

So it really took hitting that bottom of, like, now things are late payments and my scores just plummeting to start, like learning what do I need to do. And most people in what I found in, you know, in mortgage lending, talking to so many people who feel like I’ve been working on my credit, you know, I paid everything off. It’s been sitting there for like six months.

I have no balances. And I’m like, well, unfortunately, you know, our society wants us to live in debt and we have to learn how to manage it responsibly. So you do have to use it.

Not every credit card that you have. You know, you don’t always have to have a balance. Just like you were saying, Lexi, you know, you learn how to have a.

Play the game of, you know, keeping some balances here, keeping the cards open, running a couple transactions, you know, here and there throughout the year, paying that off so that the card stays open. You looking at those cards that generally have the lower interest rates and maybe have the better rewards. Like, I’m definitely the advocate for learning what benefits come along with each one of your credit cards and where the interest rates are on those cards and then managing that, you know, you
should write.

I believe fully. I truly update this every month when I’m doing my bills, looking at what the interest rates are on each of my cards, where my balances are, what my minimum payments are. People don’t recognize that if you’re looking at just your minimum payments, you can almost identify what cards are at the highest rates.

No, I’m so sorry. My mom is calling me. I need to.

You notice I got to call you. Go right ahead. Thank you.

So the. The thought of having the. The know how to be able to, you know, put a little bit on the cards, manage it, and see the score go up, you know, instead of staying stagnant and having a zero balance and always living off that, thinking that that’s benefiting you, it’s unfortunately not the case, you know, because we do have to show, okay, we’re.

We’re given this debt, we can use it, we can manage it, we can pay it back, and that’s what ultimately gives us those opportunities to see our limits go up like you did and have a nice Christmas to buy some presents. Yeah, because we’re gonna pay it back, you know, Right. Quickly.

So well. And I. I think you. You hit on such a.

A fantastic point that I feel like I’m personally just more learning in the last maybe year, and Sean has been a big help for me with this. But the interest rates, you know, there have been a couple of times where we’ve talked about. We hate to, you know, deplete our savings or use a bunch from our savings to pay off this or that credit card, but yet we’re.

We’re literally just lighting money on fire as far as the interest. So when you factor in, you know, if. If you owe four or five grand on a credit card and you have higher interest, which I still have pretty high interest on, at least decently high on.

On some of my cards. So, you know, if you’re talking like $150 in interest or something, like, every month, a lot of money that, like, I was just. For years, I didn’t really care.

I was just like, whatever, you know, I’m paying it down as much as I can. I’m doing the best that I can with managing it. And I would try and keep it really low.

But, you know, there. There have been times, for example, where we have had to not live off of credit cards but utilize them a lot more. Because, like, when Sean got laid off, for example, we didn’t have the same amount of income for a while.

And so you have to. You end up racking them up a little bit more, and then you. You’re paying on that interest for a while.

It doesn’t just immediately go down. I think that was one of the most frustrating things for me where I would, like, pay off a balance and it’d be like, minimum payment, $180 or something. I’m like.

But I literally. But why? Because it’s, you know, going back a month, it’s not reflective of right now. They’re going to get their money.

Oh, yeah. So I think that that is beautiful what you said about, like, your process of what you do every month of just kind of sitting down and looking at the budget and not just paying attention to the minimum payment, but actually checking, like, what is the. The interest rate and, you know, all of that and, and how.

I almost think of it of, like, how worth it is it for me to use this card? Are the benefits that good? Right. Or is it worth it more for me to use this other card, for example, for a while? And. And that’s the other thing that we do.

We kind of rotate. Like, if one starts to get a little high, I’m like, all right, don’t use that one for a while. Let’s cool it on that one.

Focus on this one much lower interest rate and, you know, whatever. Yeah, that was really cool. That’s helpful.

I also really, I mean, primarily look at. When I’m doing that, looking at the interest rates and the minimum payments, I never am making a minimum payment. Like, you should never be making a minimum payment on a credit card.

There’s. There’s nothing college. Yeah.

And so I’m really trying to look at, okay, how much more should I be putting on this card? You know what I mean? Like, which ones should I be attacking more? And I work towards those cards that do have the higher rates, trying to put a little bit more than what I would on another. You know what I mean? If that Minimum payment is a hundred bucks by default. In my mind, I was going to be putting 200 on it anyway.

But if that one has a 20% interest rate and another card that was a equal amount, more or less had a 15%, maybe I’m putting 250 on that, you know, 20% card and doing the 200 on the 15%. You know what I mean? Like that type of mindset, I think that that really helps to try and manage and keep those interest payments down. Another thing that a lot of people don’t realize on credit cards is the simple fact of whenever you make a payment, you’re starting those days of interest over again.

So even if you can pay, you know, 50 bucks in between your bill, you’re starting that over, so you’re actually cutting the interest down. I did not know that. Yeah.

So the same thing on your mortgage, really. And the mortgage you can, you can set up to do bi weekly payments. It doesn’t fully hit it the same way as if you do buy weekly payments to do it on your own.

But if you just apply it to the principal balance, that’s what I would do instead of, you never want it to really go to interest on your mortgage. You just want to apply it to the principal balance. You know what I mean? The credit card doesn’t let you distinguish if you’re paying it to the principal or to the interest.

It just goes, you know, but the mortgage is, is different. So, you know, that is something to consider. There are a lot of.

I know people that, you know, set up a auto pay on their credit cards that they constantly use that they just, you know, might have that one card that they spend every. I mean, I know plenty of people who spend everything on their credit card to, to rack up those points, you know what I mean? And then they pay what they pay, you know, what they would have been paying right out of their debit. They just pay that right to the credit card.

You know, that’s exactly it. That’s what we do. But the other thing that they add in there is setting minimum payments to hit like weekly so that it’s cutting the interest out, you know, and then.

Fantastic. Lump sum. I love this.

Yeah. Because I will say, like, my credit cards are probably the only bills that I don’t have auto pay set up for because I never know exactly how much I’m going to put on it. Like, it depends on certain other bills, like electric or, you know, something like that.

And you know, we just had to replace our car, so our car payment is ridiculous. Now it’s, it’s much higher. So I’m still like navigating when some of my credit card payments are due and I’m like, ah, I had it all mapped out, you know, for years and now I have to like recalibrate a little bit because of when I get paid.

But that I love that, like setting some sort of a, of a minimum kind of payment every week. I had no idea that that impacted interest and oh my gosh, it’s life changing. Yeah, I’m totally doing that with all my credit cards right now.

I’m setting that up. Maybe not all of them because then you’re just, you know, really going to start a couple big ones. Yeah, you’re big.

A couple big ones. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely will help you knock that out for sure.

Another tip in regards to credit and granted, I’m not a credit counselor, I’m only speaking from experience and is there’s really three big things about building your credit. And a lot of people just think that it’s how much you’re spending versus how much the limit is and always having it paid off, you know, that whole mindset there. But there is not just the balance to limit ratio.

There is the time in the debt that you have and of course the payment history. Like never, never, never, never, never having a late payment. But the time in debt is a huge, huge factor.

And a big misstep that a lot of people make is over time, you know, like we’ll just go back to capital one, you know, starting with that $500 balance. Their limit generally when you got that 500 limit, your, your interest rate was astronomical. You know what I mean? 20, 25, 29%, whatever it might have been.

Right. And over time, yeah, they bumped that limit up. But it always seems like your first credit card, you never really can get that limit high, you know, high enough that you’re able to use it like we’re talking about for all your monthly expenses to not maxing it out, you know, so when they might get another card that has that higher limit and maybe a lower rate, then they by default are like, oh, I’m just going to close out that old $500 capital one.

Not realizing that they just wiped out all their time and debt and that has a huge impact. They will see their credit score plummet and it takes much longer for that score to come back up than it does from opening up a new credit card or whatnot. So I always encourage folks, and I play the game myself of looking at the Age life on all of my credit cards, if I’m going to open up or I’m going to close a new credit a card out.

Because another sidebar is that anytime you open up a new card or you close a credit card, you even if it was in good standing and you were like, I’m just going to close it, it makes your credit score drop and people get really frustrated by that. That makes no sense. And I’m like, I know it doesn’t.

You know, I truly think credit scoring is a racket, but you just got to learn how to play the game, you know what I mean? This is how it goes. So when you are looking at the time in these debts, let’s say that you have a credit card that has, you know, for example, a four year. You got two cards that are four years old, right? And then you open up a new card.

Well, your average credit life was what like basically for basically the dropping it to in half. More than half. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like you, you had four years, but now you just dropped it down to less than two, you know what I mean? Like, and the more credit cards you have, obviously you average those out, right? So yeah, if you have a opportunity to look at and you’re like, well, my oldest credit card was 10 years old.

It was 10 years old and I have my next credit card that I opened up two years ago. Well, my average credit life is, you know, a little more than five years. Right.

So but now I just, I’m going to open up this new credit card and it’s a $20,000 limit and it has the lowest rate. So I’m going to close out that 10 year credit card. No, well, now my average life is less than a year, you know what I mean? So yeah, it really changes in your score will drop.

So especially when you’re trying to prepare for big moves, you know, getting a new car, buying a new house, you know, these are things to definitely consider that I ever encourage opening or closing new debt right around that time. But you know, as you plan for your future, it is something really important. So.

Yeah, absolutely. And that was one thing that I didn’t really know until probably a couple of years ago about the longevity of your oldest credit card is actually super valuable. And so I think like credit karma and Experian are both ones that like I utilize to just like watch and monitor certain things.

I mean, you know, through Chase and Capital One, you get all kinds of tools too. So that those are all things that have kind of helped Me learn a little bit about, oh, it is valuable, and it does hurt you a little bit, you know, with a new card and depending on this and that and the other. But the other thing, like, I’ve closed one card.

Thankfully, I still have that old Capital One card. Just, like, let it grow over time. Same.

Yeah, it’s super helpful. Right. But I had a.

Like a Delta American Express card, and it was a good card, but it had a super, super, super low limit. And I mean, years later, I would just periodically use it, hardly ever, but just to keep the line of credit open. Right.

And then I decided to request. I mean, I’m talking probably six, seven years after I got the card, was it the first time I ever requested a credit line increase? Because literally all my other cards were massively higher limit. And I was like, okay, I’m never going to use this card because that’s just so low.

And they declined it. Mm. And I was like, okay, I’m on principal, honey.

I’m gonna. I’m gonna close. No, I. I didn’t on principle, but I did sit down and actually weigh it out.

How much is this going to impact my credit score versus I’m paying $95 a year to just sit on this card and never use it. So I’m literally paying them money just to keep it open. Like, how bad is it going to impact my score? And when I looked at everything and, like, weighed it all out, it wasn’t enough that I couldn’t overcome it.

Right. Quickly. Yeah.

Like, in that instance, I was just lighting money on fire. I know it’s only a hundred dollars a year, but $100. A lot of money sometimes when you need it.

Right. I mean, I still think it’s always a lot of money, but, you know, I. That’s the one thing that I will say, like, if you have a card where you do have an annual fee, especially if you’re never using it or, you know, it just doesn’t fit your life. Like, maybe you do need to talk to someone and evaluate how bad is this going to be if I do close it out? If it’s your oldest, just keep it.

Yeah, but I mean. And again, not a credit counselor, clearly. But that’s the one thing that I’m like, okay, I might advocate for, like, potentially closing it down because it’s just not worth it.

There are plenty of other cards that, you know, I have or I know people that have. And they have annual fees, and it’s completely worth it. So I think that’s.

That’s the other big evaluation thing. I never wanted to pay an annual fee for cards for the longest time, but now I’m like, it’s kind of worth it, right? I know. I did the same thing.

I avoided those cards that had the annual fees for the majority for a long time, because I was like, that. I’m not blowing money for that. You know, that seems crazy.

But then I still do have that one, you know, shout out to Capital One for being that for most people. Right. I still have that old one.

Same thing, though. Like, I got to the point where I had all these other cards that had way higher limits, and I was like, so are you gonna bump this up? And they were like, no. That’s like.

I know. Like, it. It’s almost a little.

Grab my purse, right? It’s almost a little bit like, are you kidding? Are you really? Okay, I’ll play that game. Exactly. I see you.

I see you. But, you know, we’ll use each other for what we need each other for. That’s what we do.

You play a game like that, right? Awesome. Well, I appreciate everything that we’re. We’re chatting about here.

I just. I’m gonna touch on a couple more questions, and. And then we’ll wrap up our time.

But I’m interested to hear, you know, what does success mean to you, Lexi? It’s funny, because I. I ask my clients this a lot in life coaching because it means something far different to me now than it ever used to. You know, when I was younger, I used to see success as, like, a big house, a pretty decent car. I’m not really a car girl, so I don’t get into the whole, like, I need a poor shirt.

Nothing like that, but just a nice newer car, you know, a good job, making a good salary, like, a high salary. That was success to me. And being close to.

Or debt free, I guess, is something. If I’m thinking on that wavelength, that’s probably what I would. Would add to it now.

Although those things can be great, it means nothing if you’re unhappy and if you don’t have a sense of purpose and you’re not exploring your passions. And for me, personally involved in some way of giving back. So success now is like, how.

How balanced can I feel as far as my job, my stress level, my life, my relationships? And, I mean, I can definitely see when I’m out of sync with certain things, like, I’m spending more time focusing on stress of my job or stress of buying a house or, you know, things like that, and maybe I’m neglecting some of my relationships, so that makes me unhappy. And then I’m stressed about that and whatever, and I’m like, okay, that’s keeping me out of sync and out of balance. So I need to address that.

I need to think about that. So I think now success a lot of times means, like, purpose, passion, happiness, and balance to me. Like, if I feel well balanced, I feel really successful in that.

In that moment. You know, like, if you can think of that kind of high moment where you’re like, you checked a bunch of things off your to do list and you’re like, chilling with a kona ice cream and, you know, you’re just like sitting there, you look over at your loved one or something, and you’re just like in a kind of blissful, happy kind of moment. Don’t you feel like a big success in that moment, regardless of your.

Your job or anything else? So, yeah, it’s. It’s shifted a lot for me. Sure, I would like more money, right? Sure.

Who doesn’t? And it would alleviate some stress. But I also think it’s really important to understand that, like, you’re still in control of your mindset. So, like, there are times where I am stressing heavily about money, and I’m like, okay, what.

What is that fixing for me? What is that changing for me? It’s actually harming my relationship with money. I remember where I think it was Jen Sincero, she has a section of her you’re a badass book is about finances. Yeah.

Yeah. And she. She made a comment about, like, the more that you say I hate money or you stress about money, like, you’re basically pushing it away from you.

Right. And even if you don’t believe in that type of, you know, philosophy, if you will, there is something to be said about that. Like, you are putting off negative energy about money if you’re just constantly stressing and freaking out about it.

I know personally I have more money that comes into my life when I’m not acting that way. So I think it’s just. It’s still at the end of the day, if.

If I’m looking at my definition of success being more about balance, if I’m stressing about something a lot of times now, I ask myself, like, do I really want to stress about this right now? Most of the time, the answer is no. So then it just helps ease that stress level down a little bit so I can react to whatever I need to and focus, refocus, I guess, and just kind of realign myself so then you’re able to address more problems or whatever it might be. So then you get closer to that feeling of
balance again.

I love that. I think that that’s perfect. And I. That’s the whole reason why I wanted both you and Ed on today.

I mean, I speaks to both of who you are, who you guys are. I would say, you know, he had to rush off for a family emergency, unfortunately, but I would almost guess that his answer would be very, very similar. And I love you guys for it.

I really appreciate you both being with me today. I had a lot of fun. It was very informative, and I really think that it’s going to hit home for a lot of people.

And I’m excited to see you guys on your journeys and continue on, and anything that I can do to support you, I’m always here for you. You know that. Absolutely.

Well, thank you for asking. I mean, for. For both Ed and myself, I’m sure he would say the same.

But I’m truly honored that you asked me to be a part of this. But it was so much fun, and I learned. I mean, I’m gonna go set up, like, the whole budget thing now about.

Okay, every week. Let’s do this for these cards. I’m super excited.

But again, I. I love this mission that you’re doing and the way that you’re bringing it to people. I think it’s just going to be super helpful, and I appreciate it, and I’m super excited to see where and how much you impact others through this as well. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening. This has been invest in you.

We hope to see you next time. Sa.