Well, good afternoon, world. And this is Dan. Dan, your payroll man with Landmark Payroll.

And. And we are on episode three, podcast number three in a series of podcasts that center around diversity, equality and inclusion in the workplace. And today my very, very special guest is Mike Wags, AKA Mike Wagner with Green Oak Lending.

And Mike, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, Dan. I’m very excited to be here.

Well, we are very excited to have you. So when we first spoke several weeks ago, I had mentioned to you that I wanted to have a diverse audience, or not a diverse audience, but diverse guests on my podcast to give their point of view on whether or not they see a change in diversity in the workplace, to obviously include equality, et cetera, from when they began working to now. Now you’re much younger than me, so the span of years is less for you.

But I am going to start out with Mike. Tell us just a little bit about you and who you’re with. Yeah, absolutely.

So I co own a mortgage brokerage, Green Oak Lending Group, with my business partner and best friend David Lavolse. He’s up in Michigan. I’m down here in Florida.

I always say I’m the smart one that moved where the weather is warm. We’ve got what, six loan officers and our loan officer assistant, Nicole Farrell, who is like my second wife and secretary and make sure I get everything done. We’ve got a tight unit.

We’ve been together for a long time. The majority of us have over a decade of lending experience. Majority of our team members have come from United Wholesale Mortgage and Rocket Mortgage over the years and we’ve befriended them.

And when we started our little company up, we’re like, well, why not do it with high level people that you already know and love as a base? That is beautiful. So then I know that I can come to you and you can tell me when the rates are going to go back down to 2.65.

Well, I mean, if we all had that crystal ball, we’d probably be trillionaires making money. But let’s, let’s say a prayer. I mean, maybe, maybe by June we’ll see a nice drop.

I’m kidding. I don’t, I, I do hope that we do see that happen again, but not at the, not at the cost that we all paid for it the first time around. So.

Well, Mike, with your permission, I am going to dive right in. I do have some questions, but I want to make certain that you’re aware this is very interactive. So please feel free to turn that around and ask questions of myself as well.

Okay. I don’t want you to feel that this is a firing squad and it’s just going to be thrown at you like, you know, question after question. But the first one, the first question that I start out with all of my guests is.

And also I want to preface to the audience. So, dear audience, the diversity in our panel or the diversity of guests are incredibly important to me. So obviously, you know that we’ve had LGBT folks on our podcast, and now Mike is an ally and a very proud and supportive ally of our community, and that’s probably.

We’re going to go down that road a little bit. So the first question, Mike, is what does diversity mean to you in the context of. Of the workplace, whether it be with your mortgage company or corporate America, or maybe even mom and pop America.

Yeah, great question. And, you know, I so kind of a little background, you know, coming into the mortgage industry in 2010, I started for one, reverse mortgage, which was a reverse mortgage branch of Quicken Loans at the time. What I loved about it, when I got in there was how diverse of a population it was growing up.

I’ve had friends from every background my entire life. So to me, you know, humans, a human being, if there’s talent, you can see somebody grow. Let’s go.

You know, it’s just. It becomes a little different when you really start looking at promotional promotions, favoritism, all these things that happen in corporate America that we know about all the time. You know, you’ve heard terms like boys Club and all that.

Yes, there’s a piece of that. I mean, at Rocket, that was what I loved about them, though. I mean, it was by the numbers.

So everything was, hey, you hit these target, you’re going to then hit this promotion, and you’re going to change based on your numbers. Numbers don’t lie. They control everything.

I really liked that because now it allows anybody in that space to achieve at a very high level based on the work they’re putting in. When we opened our brokerage, I really took more of that same great stance of, hey, let’s grow this thing out. We need members from every community out there, really, to make a difference.

We have los that are African American. My processor’s Affleck African American. We’re looking at hiring, hopefully, somebody from the LGBTQ community.

Hopefully, she gets off the fence and jumps on in. Not to call her out, but that would be awesome too. Right? So we do want to grow.

We want to grow in these communities as well, because what I’ve always seen is I will invest anything that I have in the person to get them where they need to be. No matter if you’re black, white, lesbian, gay, trans, it doesn’t matter. It’s the soul and how you’re going to react and fit in with our culture, and that’s what we’ve kind of based it around.

I really feel that everybody that works with us, that we are able to, you know, have, you know, out there writing loans and really building our brand, has that same commonality where it’s. We’re a family, and it doesn’t matter where you came from. Our family is how hard are you going to work and how hard are you going to help us build and yourself build what we’re doing? Because it’s something special to us.

Wow. Where have you been? And why didn’t I know you all those years ago? So that’s excellent. And that.

That is comforting to know. Well, I mean, I’ve gotten to know you very well over the last year, and immediately you became an ally to the LGBT community and supportive of every initiative that has gone on, really, here in St. Pete and in Pinellas county and in Florida. And I like the fact that you don’t even bat an eyebrow to.

To diversity, and. And that’s something that we wish we had more of, and we’re hoping to seek more of, you know, in the future. So thank you.

Thank you for that, you know, powerful statement. So as an owner, okay, you employ a diverse workforce, which I love. Do you see that on the outside? Do you see that with businesses that you may partner with? Give me your.

Just, you know what? Give me your take on whether you think it is something that has gotten better over the years. Is it good here in Florida? You had mentioned that you’re from. Actually, you did not mention where you’re from.

Mike, tell us where you’re originally from. From the Detroit area, Michigan. So we know Detroit because I grew up in upstate New York, so another very, very diverse city.

Anyway, enough of that. What. What do you think about the workplace now? Do you see diversity, equality, and inclusion in other businesses that you either work with or support? I think that, you know, we.

You find what you’re looking for, right? You align yourself with the people that are common with. With the goals that you have, and those are the people you really want to do business with because they share the same moral compass. Right.

Scruples, whatever you’re going to call it, but on the exact same path that you really want to be on. We have a lot of partners like that. I’m fortunate there.

John Ricker owns a Baxter title. He’s somebody that we give the majority of our business to. Not only are they a fabulous title company that absolutely crushes it.

You look at his employees. I mean, he has the exact same philosophy as I do. Who’s going to work hard and who’s got the heart to be a part of our family.

And it doesn’t matter what you are coming into it. And I don’t want to say it doesn’t matter because Everybody matters. And 100% we want to celebrate people’s culture and background and diversity when we can.

So to say it doesn’t matter is not the best way to say that. But at the same time, it’s. We don’t judge you based on how you look.

We judge you based on who you are, what kind of person you are. Right. And I feel like, you know, partners like that.

I’ve got a lot of real estate partners, fortunate to have a lot of real estate partners and insurance partners like Jake Moore who have that same philosophy. And I really like it because you get to see a community change and grow at the same time. I’m not ignorant to the fact that there are probably a ton of people that feel the opposite.

And you know, unfortunately, like in a state like Florida and other, other states, maybe they’re not as open at this point. The good news for us is we’re in a beautiful area called St. Petersburg, Florida, where. This is where you want to be.

This is where diversity fucking thrives. Can I swear on this, I’m a little passionate. Sorry.

This is where it thrives. Listen, it’s called passion. And you speak, you speak your mind.

I’ll keep going, but if it’s too much, let me know. I’ll try to keep them out of there. But I’ve never seen a city with so much cultural diversity that stems together so well and sticks together so well.

And I, I feel honored and blessed to be a part of it every day. So my. And to come back to the point, I’m sorry, I do talk a lot.

I always look at it this way. Let’s. Let’s make the impact that I can make.

Let’s control the controllables. And if I can keep getting what I know and what I feel out there and people are drawn to that, maybe it makes their day better. Maybe it changes their mind.

Maybe it allows them to see something a little differently than maybe they were, know, brought up to see. Hey, great, then I, I guess I’m contributing. So, no, I love it.

I really do. An audience. I wish you could.

You could see it. There is so much passion when he speaks, and for those of you that know him on a personal level, you can see it and hear the passion, and. And I love it.

So I agree with you on St. Pete, obviously, being very diverse. I moved down here from Atlanta, Georgia, which was pretty diverse, but just Atlanta, you know, 20 miles outside, it was incredibly rural, maybe a little. Maybe a little backwards.

So I. I really felt the love in Atlanta, Georgia. But when I left Atlanta, I moved to St. Pete, and I not only feel it in St. Pete, I feel it all over Florida. Well, most parts of Florida.

Again, like you had said, we do have some pockets, and there are some individuals that, you know, they just don’t like anybody but themselves. Now, what I want to ask you is, how do you. How do you feel, especially with the LGBT community? I know in St. Pete, it’s incredibly.

We are incredibly embraced, but how do you see it overall in Florida? I mean, I know there’s a few things that have happened in the last couple of years from a political standpoint, but do you still feel that you’re now, I guess you would say your allies. So I am your ally, and I’m on the LGBT side. All right.

Do you feel that we are represented fairly in our. In our workplace? Do I think you’re represented fairly in the workplace? I’m going to have to say probably not. And we’ve got a long way to go, you know, and it’s one of these things where I can.

I can run my business the way I want to, and that’s a controllable. And I’m able to do that, unfortunately. I mean, when you look at the LGBTQ community, LGBTQ community, you look at women, you look at African Americans, you look at really, a lot of categories.

How many are being treated fairly? Right? Like, it’s hard to tell. But here’s what I can tell you. Like, I will never be the one to ignore someone coming out and saying, hey, I’m being treated this way, or, this happened to me with a, oh, it couldn’t have been.

That’s not what it is. Or, hey, they couldn’t have meant that, right? No. Like, we need to take that seriously, because, I mean, there is still, unfortunately, there’s a lot of love out there, but there’s a lot of hate out there as well.

A lot of misplaced hate. And it. And it sucks for you guys.

Like, it does. Like, I. I feel for you every day, because, you know, I hear things and see things and we have senses and we’re out on the street. And, like, it offends me when I hear certain things and it’s like, I’m just a straight, balding, 40 year old white guy, right? Like, but I know enough to know, hey, like, this is not correct.

This is not right. Like, so I think that there’s a lot of narrative that needs to be changed and a lot of people that are probably being harmed with words that shouldn’t be just because, what, they wanted to go out to the bar and have a drink because I wanted to go to a restaurant, you know, so there’s a lot of that. And I’m sure that exists all through work, because it definitely exists.

You know, just people on the street. It exists. So that’s going to translate into what they do as well, right? No, I’m with you there.

Yeah. It’s a struggle. But I will always say, and I think I’ve said it on my last couple of podcasts, that which does not kill us makes us stronger.

And I know it’s a song and it’s a book and it’s everything, but you know what? It, it, it’s kind of true. It really is. So, you know, thank you.

Thank you for sharing. I want to. I want to go off script a little bit.

So June is our Pride month here in St. Pete. And I know that since you and I have gotten to know each other, you are active in every single community. Do you think that you would be just as active in June when, you know, when we start having parties and parades? And do you think that, you know, there would be an opportunity for your company and some of your ally company associates to support Pride, to support the LGBT community 100,000%.

Right, whatever. We got to multiply that out by, and I cannot wait. And again, I’m just so humbled to be invited to be a part of it.

So anything we can do. Absolutely. Because it is about building brands and it is about building your business, but at the same time, money follows.

You got to help the community and the people that you love first. So I would be more than thrilled. Well, we’d love to hear that.

And I’m sure that. I’m sure that we’ll see a lot of you at, at some of the events that are coming up. There’s going to be quite a few.

So stay tuned, audience, for that. All right, Mike, I asked you a couple of questions. Anything for myself.

Because then I’m going to go back to script, more or less, and ask just a couple more questions, a couple of questions for how does. How. I guess what would be your experience now that we’re building and you’ve done and been such a huge advocate to build this LGBT community and LGBTQ community where now we have advocates such as myself actually coming in? I mean, how are you seeing that going? Are you seeing that pick up? Are you seeing that going in the right direction? Yes.

So for viewers, what Michael is talking about is we have started an LGB2B plus, okay. Plus being our allies association here in St. Pete, James Cobbler and myself, and we’ve had an incredible amount of support from our allies, obviously, within our own community, but allies that support our community. We are.

We’re going big or bust on this one. We’re working with the law firm of Douglas G. Jackson on writing up articles and getting some legality in place for this.

But we are. We are moving forward with it, and we’re getting a huge response. And one of my passions is to see St. Pete represented with a.

Either a chamber or an association. Tampa has an LGBT chamber. A lot of us over here on our side of the bridge in Pinellas county don’t feel the love.

And it’s funny because we don’t feel the love from our own community. But it happens. It happens everywhere.

It happens in every, you know, class, religion, et cetera, et cetera. So it doesn’t. It doesn’t faze me too much that there is such a disparity.

But we. Listen, we want to do something on this side. We’ve had a lot of people come up to us and say that they wanted us to get, you know, to be advocates for starting an association on the side.

I’m like, well, listen, I don’t have any time on my hands, but I’ll add a few more hours to my day and start this. This alliance that we’ve got going. But, yeah, thank you.

And by the way, you are one of our biggest allies. You are one of our biggest supporters, and we cannot thank you enough for that. So.

And, Mike, speaking of everything that you’ve done, you’ve also brought us a lot of additional allies. And again, we can’t thank you enough for that because not only are we gaining your support in the community, we’re also gaining support of some people that you’ve brought to us that we may not otherwise have been able to bring to our side to partner with. Hi, this is Josh Naiman, CEO and founder of.

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Contact us today. Infoamencreative.com I want to ask you though, as a business owner and you’ve worked, you know, have you worked for companies before? Have you ever noticed any opportunity, opportunities or opportunities of mistreatment of not just the LGBT community, but maybe the black community, maybe the Puerto Rican community, or gosh, people that quote, unquote, don’t fit that average, you know, WASPy image that, that America seems to embrace. Have you ever seen any type of ill treatment
out there in any of your past employers? I would tell you that I’ve been fortunate there where the two largest mortgage companies on the planet I was able to work for for a combined nine years where, you know, I was on a team of los led by a director in a region.

So I mean, you start taking this up to 500,000 different bankers, right? That sort where it was really cool that we celebrated each other’s culture, diversity and everything else. Because the way we all looked at it was we’re all on a team. We’re here to help people get into their dream of owning a home or get them out of financial instability or here or here.

We always had a common goal to help people. And I think that with the two cultures at the two companies I worked for, people have their opinions of both, I’m sure for other reasons. But honestly, when it comes to the culture, yeah, it was, it was a great experience for everyone as far as that goes.

That doesn’t mean that things don’t happen by any means. And again, it’s always good to be aware and listen to people when they’re trying to tell you about concerns maybe they’re having within that cultural structure, However, I mean, from what I’ve seen, and that’s why I enjoyed working for those companies for as long as I did. I really enjoyed the diversity and the fact that I had friends from everywhere, and it was really.

It was a cool thing. Thank you. Yeah.

And it’s nice to hear it. It’s nice to hear it from your perspective as well, because like I said, we are. We are only on our third.

Our third official episode, and you each answer to that particular question is so appropriately diverse. And I love it. I love hearing it.

So what do you think, in your opinion, what do you think companies can do to make individuals make either the LGBT community, any diverse community? How do you think that they could better. Better their approach on attracting additional diversity? How are you doing it within your organization? I mean, your company is incredibly diverse. I know that.

So what do you think companies can do to make it a little easier for. For people to get, you know, to get involved? It’s a really good question. I know, like, for our company specifically, that I can obviously talk about it something I can control.

You know, we look at everybody from a, you know, human wanting to earn with us standpoint, no matter what your background is, we’re probably going to want you if. If our morals align. Right.

As we grow. But it gets a little blurred, I guess, with. With corporate America and.

And how all these companies that want to get involved and do the right thing are handling it. So, I don’t know. I mean, a lot of it seems like right now checking boxes and I mean, I listened to a podcast that you did with Liam Arrington, who I absolutely love, and, you know, he had made that point, and it’s interesting.

It’s like, how do you celebrate that more? And I think what it needs to be is not just a celebration of why, you know, just don’t celebrate, you know, St. Patrick’s Day for the Irish or, you know, Women’s Day or whatever. How can you celebrate all cultures and all diversities in your organization to make everyone feel welcome and make it feel like a center that, hey, if I’m transferring out of state or I’m going to do this huge job move, right? And I’m. I’m coming to a company now that I know is
so accepting and so amazing and so diverse, and I will make friends and family there and I will fit in, and it’s going to make it a heck of a lot more attractive at that point for everybody.

Right? But I don’t know how you get there. You know, I’m hoping to help as much as I can along the way, but I think that, you know, it’s got to be taken off the numbers and checking boxes. I mean, that’s.

That’s what we’ve done forever, right? And it has to be more about the human experience. I agree. I agree with you on that.

Now, there is. There’s a topic that have come up that has come up plenty of times. And again, as much as I try to keep politics out, do you think that we, in Florida, in St. Pete specifically, are diverse enough even in our political stance? Do we have enough ally supporting the LGBT community? Do we have enough support where, you know, we’re able to.

To make a difference and get our voice heard in Tallahassee? I mean, I see it. I feel that sometimes when we approach, you know, the Capitol, we’re not being heard. But do you.

Do you. What. What is your opinion on that? Yeah, it’s a good question, Dan.

And, you know, I really think that it is probably something where we’re going to need a whole lot more support. Just like anything else in life, right? As at this point, there’s a lot that needs to change, and there’s a lot that needs to be done so that, you know, people can just live their lives the way they want without hurting anyone else or doing anything else. But there’s going to be a lot of opinions that need to be changed.

So I would say from where I’m sit, it’s going to take a lot more support to be heard, but I feel like that’s part of the fight and part of the fun when you are finding these great advocates all over the state to do business with and to support your community, like myself and so many others, right, that really just want everyone to be here and be able to operate the way they want to and live their lives the way they want to, because, again, it hurts no one else. So I think it’s going to be a lot
more before. Before you see some real change.

But I think that that’s how change comes about. I think that you have to go through all of that, and you have to be willing to. To ever make any impact.

And if that’s what we’re doing, what, you know, that’s what we’re here for, that’s what we are. Our target should be, is to make as much impact as we can while we’re here and hopefully get those tides to turn. I love it.

I love it. So then going forward, a lot is going to depend on where we end up in November, you know, for. For obviously who is going to be our next leader, but I guess it’s just something that we’re going to have to.

Well, let me ask you. Let me ask you, because is it something that we. We wait for or.

And accept, or do we start trying to make some changes now? Where do you. Where do you. Where do you see this.

This going? Honestly, why wait Is always been my opinion in life. Things don’t get done when you wait. Things get put on the back burner.

Important things seem to get brushed under the rug. So if there’s ways we can contribute and help now to this movement, then we should certainly start that now. The more numbers you have and the more voices that you hear, the more likely you’re going to get something done.

But, like, we’ve got to start somewhere, right? Yeah. And something. And the reason that I was kind of hesitant in even asking that question, something most recently happened in the governor’s office where he reversed a bill that any trans man or woman that has changed their name to who they are now have to legally change it back to their original name and get a new driver’s license.

Is that where do you feel we are with this? Is this something that we are going backwards in time? Do you agree with what he’s doing in this instance? I mean, that would be like somebody telling my wife after we got married that she needs to change her name back to her maiden. That’s the same thing as saying so many things. It’s almost.

It’s unbelievable is what it is. I mean, it’s. It.

I didn’t know. And it’s shocking to hear because now, again, you have an adult that went through a transformation that wanted to fit into themselves even better, to make themselves happy and whole. Right.

And again, who is us to say you can’t do that? You can legally change your last and first name to whatever you want as an adult. My business partner did that and changed his last name, for example. It was a super easy process.

Why. Why should that be anything? That’s crazy, right? Like, shocking to hear, you know, and again, like, there’s so much that’s going to shock me when I hear it, because it’s like it’s. It’s out of ignorance.

Right. But you know, that’s. That’s crazy.

Yeah, well, that. That shocked me, too. We don’t do it like that in Michigan.

Right. Well, we didn’t do that in New York either. Right.

But again, that literally just popped into my Head. And I’m thinking, I wonder. I’m not sure where he’s going with this.

And I. And I often think that it may be, you know, more of a. Of a political agenda, so I’m just gonna. Or a personal agenda.

I’m sorry, but I wanted your opinion on that. As. Like I said, as someone that I’ve gotten to know and who, you know, again, embraces everybody, I think that’s insane.

That’s my opinion on it. No, I do, too. I really do.

So. All right, now we are just about halfway through 30 minutes, so you got 15 left? I got 15 left. Okay.

Wow. I have 15 minutes left. Mike, so much to talk about.

Let me ask you, is there anything that you want to share, you know, with the audience? What. What do you. I’ll ask you this.

What do you want to see on some of these podcasts that. That I’m doing? I know that I talked to you a little bit about wanting them to be as diverse as possible with, you know, guests of. Of a different color, you know, different ethnicity.

Boy, that’s a big word in my vocabulary. And where do you see these going? Do you think that we’re going to get enough of an audience that listens to make a difference? Oh, absolutely. I love what you’re doing, number one.

I think it’s great. I think that you need perspective from everybody, because the one thing that a collective perspective will do is allow you to see humans for what they are and their beautiful gifts and what they have and be embraced by a community a little more. I really, really enjoy where you’re going with these.

I want to see more of them. Obviously, you’re everywhere. You know, so many people.

So, you know, after this series, maybe even things on Mindset and the culture shock and things like that and how it’s getting better, or is it getting better? And what can. And what can. Really.

What can allies like myself do to help even more? Right? Like, not to be a PSA or anything like that, but again, it’s like, we want to be involved. Put me in, coach. Like, let’s go.

So what can we do to help even more? And I think the more. And I think. I think you’re doing a hell of a job, period, because all of this is going to shed so much light, and it’s going to be so many perspective and views from so many folks that, I mean, really, I love the direction you’re heading.

Well, thank you. I mean, you know, it’s definitely humbling and is definitely a. A true labor of Love.

Because I, you know, obviously, I’ve wanted to see something like this happen for a really long time. If we can get, you know, 20 more Mike Wags, I mean, that would be fantastic, because the support that you give to. To me, the support that you give to my community, I say my community is our community.

That’s. I’ve got to. I’ve got to stop, you know, pigeonholing myself and saying it’s my community.

No, it’s all of our community, because we all want to be able to feel comfortable and in whatever skin we are in. So, you know, thank you. How.

How can you help? You’re already doing it. You’re bringing, you know, great support and great allies, you know, not only to the LG LGBT B plus group, but just, you know, every organization that we’re a part of. St. Pete Chamber of Commerce, sun leaders, you know, everything that we’re.

That we’re involved in. So, you know, thank you and keep on doing it. That’s all I could.

All I could say. And, you know, we appreciate that. We really do.

I don’t really have any other questions, Mike. I mean, this has been, you know, impactful. I try to.

I try to, you know, extend as many appropriate questions as possible and leave. Leave the audience guessing for our new. Our next guest.

Okay. Which I know that you’ll like. But I want to thank you.

Thank you for everything that you did for us today. And just one more time before we close, tell us who you are, tell us what you do, and don’t look in the magic ball, because I don’t know if it even exists. But you know how we can help you out there in the community.

Absolutely. And before I do that and shamelessly plug myself, I do also want to say, like, a huge thank you to you as well, Dan. You’ve been family since I’ve known you.

You’ve gotten me involved in so many organizations. It’s funny that you want to help, but you need to be pointed in the direction. Well, you were the light that pointed me in those directions, and I truly appreciate that.

Again, I’m Mike Wagner, Green Oak Lending Group, residential mortgage brokerage here in the great state of Florida and the great state of Michigan, helping as many people as we can with their home goals. Yeah. You can email me@Mike wagnereenoaklending.com Excuse me.

Michaelwagnereenoaklending.Com It’s a very long one with any information. My Cell phone is 248-941-1684.

Feel free to reach out with any questions. Anytime. Thank you again.

Appreciate it, Mike. And audience, as you know, this is Dan. Dan, your payroll man.

Episode number three with Mike Wags, our AKA Michael Wagner. And can’t thank you enough, my friend, for. For being here today.

I so appreciate it. Thank you, Sam.